Author Topic: how good/bad is "event gas"?  (Read 24788 times)

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Offline sofadriver

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2015, 01:19:35 AM »
Lots of good info! Thanks all.

So here's what I've learned;


Gasoline is an easy scapegoat for a miscalculated tune but there IS such a thing as bad event gas.  ("Swill" was the term used.)   Possibly "So Cal Gold" or (probably) old fuel from unmaintained tanks. 

ERC will bring great event gas so there's no worry.

A max power tune is not the way to go. (Thank you!)

I'm going to test on a locally available race gas comparable to ERC and run it on the salt, too........in the FUEL class.  I'm not after the 100cc APS fuel or gas records anyhow.  (the fuel record is slower than the gas record).  I've got my own goal.  Plus, as a rookie, I'd rather not jump through all the hoops required for gas. Especially mixed gas!  There's 2016 for that.
Mike in Tacoma

"aww, what the hell - let's just do it".............

Bike #833
100cc A/G, A/F and APS/G (in 2019)

Offline Frankie7799

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2015, 04:48:57 PM »
Great info everybody. Something learned even by a guy who didnt ask the question  :-)

Offline joea

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2015, 06:51:56 PM »
imo the "event" gas at SCTA events is as good as it gets...!!!

when the guy (Rick Gold) who actually "builds/blends" the fuel, is actually the
petro-chemist that hauls it and pumps it and is there as a consultant,
its second to none and world class...

as far as "Cooked pistons, valves, whole motors, etc"....imo there is at least
an equivalent number of scenarios (or more) from those using "non-event" fuels...

folks blow stuff up largely d/t what "they" have control over...the quality of the "the tune-up" and the "build"

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2015, 07:01:04 PM »
Nice to know that whatever happens to the motor, I can blame the gas. :-D :-D

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.

Offline RichFox

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2015, 07:52:48 PM »
If you can't blame the gas, you can always blame the driver. Unless you are the driver.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2015, 08:19:17 PM »
It is a good idea to bring a sealed can of your choice of ERC with you if you run in the gas class and the blend is the same a the event fuel.  That way, if logistics force you to run when you cannot get fuel from Rick at the track, you have an alternative.  Be sure to break the seal on the can and pour the stuff into the bike under the watchful eyes of the tech inspectors.  They probably will seal your gas cap so you cannot open it again without breaking the seal.

In my case, I like to run the partial streamlined bike real early during the calm part of the morning.  I am holding my place in line at staging when Rick opens up the trailer and it would screw everything up if I needed to get in line for fuel.  I would run too late when it gets windy.

Offline sofadriver

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2015, 12:18:43 AM »
Great info everybody. Something learned even by a guy who didnt ask the question  :-)

I always say that I may not know much - but I know who to ask!

Next, I'm going to start an oil thread!
 :evil: :evil: :evil:
Mike in Tacoma

"aww, what the hell - let's just do it".............

Bike #833
100cc A/G, A/F and APS/G (in 2019)

Offline mergatroyd

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2015, 12:19:49 AM »
Great info everybody. Something learned even by a guy who didnt ask the question  :-)

I always say that I may not know much - but I know who to ask!

Next, I'm going to start an oil thread!
 :evil: :evil: :evil:
:dhorse: pure synthetic dyno oil in -20-100 weight?
I have no idea what I'm doing... but it seems to be working!

Offline hotrod

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2015, 01:17:06 PM »
Ref your comment "A max power tune is not the way to go. (Thank you!)"

Go to the first link below and read it very carefully, especially the chart that he comments "DO NOT just skip over that chart"
Pay special attention to how little power changes as you get into dangerous territory for heat load on the engine.
The chart was developed for aircraft engines but the physics behind it are universal. In this case it talks about cylinder head temp (in an air cooled aircraft engine)
for water cooled engines that translates to cooling system load and piston top temperatures. It is directly applicable to air cooled motorcycle engines. Same goes for exhaust gas temps. they peak way lean of best power and you can get the same power on the rich side of that best power hump as you can on the lean side.


http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html

Also take the time to wrap your head around this article on detonation.

Keep in mind these were developed for aircraft and they have some jargon you need to understand. They usually have fixed ignition timing and perform in flight tuning by changing the fuel air mixture, and they make adjustments as lean of peak EGT (LOP) and rich of peak EGT (ROP) as that was a convenient measuring point with their instrumentation. They do that by closely monitoring cylinder head temp(CHT) and also (EGT) which in a water cooled engine is roughly equivalent to cooling system heat load and piston top temperatures since the liquid cooling holds a more or less uniform temperature in the cylinder head. Likewise high EGT's lead to burned pistons and valves along with detonation risk. So tuning for 25 deg lean of peak would be a mixture that is on the lean side of peak EGT by 25 degrees. Notice on the chart that there is a fixed relationship (on a given engine with a given timing) between EGT and CHT and power. Once you know one you know the other three as long as you know on which side of the hump in the curve you are on.

http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182132-1.html

Note in this link that there are safe rich mixtures and safe lean mixtures for detonation and at high power levels an island forms in between them which is a no go zone due to detonation risk. In that zone if you are in the safe lean mixture range and try to cool things down by enriching the mixture slightly, you could suddenly find yourself in serious risk of detonation, which is counter intuitive until you understand that chart near the bottom of the article.

Happy hunting and good luck with your project
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:19:05 PM by hotrod »

Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2015, 06:45:15 PM »
On the same topic, I'm planning to run 93 pump gas at SpeedWeek, so I e-mailed Rick at ERC to see if they'd be carrying anything close to 93. He told me that the lowest-octane fuel they bring to Bonneville is 100 octane unleaded ERC MUL-C. My question is, if I know I'm not going to come close to a record or impound (which I'm not), and I still want to run the 93 tune, can I bring my own fuel, get my tank sealed and still run in G/BGALT (knowing that I'm basically just running T/O), or will I have to run in G/BFALT? Not a big deal if that's the case, but I'd just like to know ahead of time (if for no other reason than to put the right class on the entry form). And if it came down to it, I'd be willing to pay ERC (to support the event-fuel vendor) but still run my own gas. What exactly are my options?
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1 mile)     143.313
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1.5 mile)  148.321
LTA   F/PRO Record (1 mile)         114.668

Offline Stan Back

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2015, 07:23:37 PM »
If you're never to run close to a record, you can run anything you want in Gas class.  You won't be tested until you get to Impound.  Run Nitro if you want.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2015, 10:00:25 PM »
If you're never to run close to a record, you can run anything you want in Gas class. You won't be tested until you get to Impound. Run Nitro if you want.

Hmmm...nitro, eh?  :evil:

Thanks for the info--that's exactly what I was looking for...

Gary
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1 mile)     143.313
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1.5 mile)  148.321
LTA   F/PRO Record (1 mile)         114.668

Offline gas pumper

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2015, 11:39:13 AM »
 :cheers:
hotrod!  thank you the links to those great articles.

Frank
Crew for 608 AA/GL.
Crew for The Flying Seven, 7207, XO/GCT, V4/FCT Loring.

Offline jacksoni

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2015, 12:27:34 PM »
If you're never to run close to a record, you can run anything you want in Gas class. You won't be tested until you get to Impound. Run Nitro if you want.

Hmmm...nitro, eh?  :evil:

Thanks for the info--that's exactly what I was looking for...

Gary
You never know but I sorta suspect that if you come to the line labeled as a gas class car and someone smells nitro they might ask an official about it, specially someone in your class! 8-) :cheers:
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline dw230

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Re: how good/bad is "event gas"?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2015, 01:26:21 PM »
I know the impound guy and he tells me that you should not waste your time thinking about gas options.

Run what you want, enter fuel class and have fun. Someday you will proceed up the ladder to record speeds, close to 250 in the G/BAlt classes) and then you can refine your race program.

Bon Chance,
DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth