how good/bad is "event gas"?

[sofadriver]

I've read horror stories about event gas.  Cooked pistons, valves, whole motors, etc.  Did crappy gas really cause those problems or was it just an easy thing to blame?  Obviously there's lots of folks who run it every year with no problems.    All I know is that I don't want to fry my little 2-smoker.

I'd like to run the same gas I'll be using for testing but non-event gas will put me in fuel class.  Running methanol is another can of worms that I don't have time to deal with right now.  I might just bring my own race gas and run in the fuel class. (my easiest option by far)

So, what product does SCTA use at Bonneville? (VP, Sunoco, Trick, etc.)  And, If I use that product for my tuning here will I get the same stuff out on the salt?
Is "race gas" just regular gas with additives?
Is it tested during events?  If so, by who?
Do event organizers just take what they are given?
  

[mergatroyd]

The SCTA brings ERC to the events.

I had the bike running on Torco 110, and the difference between that and ERC 110K was enough that it really didn't want to start.  I'm of the opinion that gas blends are a pain in the acura...

Are you carb'ed or injected?

[Speed Limit 1000]

ERC is good gas. Rick Gold is knowledgeable and helpful. We have been very fortunate to have ERC support Bonneville racers. Running wide open for 3 to 5 miles does take a good tune and an understanding of the limits of your machine.

[Dynoroom]

The simpler solution is to test on the fuel you MUST use at Speedweek, ERC. It's a very good fuel but like dynos all across the country, different than what you may be using. So to cop a phrase "Test, don't guess"

[fredvance]

When I run in gas class I tune with ERC. I try and plan ahead and take some home with me. If I dont have any I have it shipped, expensive. But having my bike tuned on the gas I must run has worked well.

[Peter Jack]

ERC are known for for being helpful. I think you should be able to get them to ship you a sealed container of what you need for tuning purposes. You'll probably find the ever changing density altitude at Bonneville at least as challenging as getting the fuel mix you need for compatibility. ERC's website is:

http://www.ercracingfuels.com/

Hope this settles down a few of those concerns.  

Pete

[fordboy628]

The simpler solution is to test on the fuel you MUST use at Speedweek, ERC. It's a very good fuel but like dynos all across the country, different than what you may be using. So to cop a phrase "Test, don't guess"

x2

When we dyno'ed the MM's BMC, we selected the ERC fuel that would be used @ B'ville, and then ran the VP "equivalent", AFTER A VERY CAREFUL COMPARISON.    VP was available in Milwaukee/Chicago, shipping a 55 gal drum of ERC to the Midwest just wasn't affordable.    Not a perfect plan, but it was workable, and it got a good result for Chris.

It goes without saying that you must be very careful about your "tune".    Whether on the dyno or at B'ville.    Slightly weak engines are better than blown up or melted engines.

 
Fordboy

[Stan Back]

I believe they ship in 5-gal. quantities, too.  It might be a bit expensive when compared to locally-obtained race gas, but you would have what you'll run on.  Probably less than nitro, I suppose.  Rick Gold is really racer-friendly and his opinions are solid.

I, too, think that the altitude adjustment you make from sea level to Bonneville will be the biggest tuning challenge.

If I remember correctly, the ERC trailer have a great sign posted -- goes something like this --
"90% of Fuel Problems Are Electrical".

[jdincau]

And Don Zig used to say 90% of magneto problems are mixture related.

[SPARKY]

DYNO with ERC if you are planning to run at B'Ville.  I like to do it when it is hot-- June or July---the DA swings a huge amount at B'Ville

  If you have a strong motor it is just cheap insurance!!!

RICK is very helpful.

[dw230]

Bottom line - does not matter if the gas is good or bad(it is good), it is what you must use in gas classes. Read the advice in the posts above and you will be OK. BTW, there is a board on the door of the fuel trailer on which Rick updates with changing atmosphere conditions.

Be very, very grateful that you are no longer forced to use So Cal Gold. Ask a veteran about those stories.

DW

[hotrod]

I've read horror stories about event gas.  Cooked pistons, valves, whole motors, etc.  Did crappy gas really cause those problems or was it just an easy thing to blame?

There is a big difference in a bleeding edge tune that only needs to keep the engine alive for under 12 seconds and a bleeding edge tune that will keep the engine alive at full load full throttle for 5 miles. Very different conditions for the engine, and heat build up which is tolerable on the drag strip or a quick run through the rpm range on a dyno can easily melt components after several 10's of seconds have passed.

There is very little difference between the power output on an engine tuned on the safe (rich) side of peak power and on the (lean) side of peak power.
Same goes for an engine which has just a tad less timing than is ideal and a tad more timing than is ideal. You are talking about only a percent or so of total power from the low end to the high end of those two ranges. People naturally tend to go just a bit too far in both cases.

During WWII some of the best minds in the industry were involved in testing high performance aircraft engines for maximum output, and they settled on an ignition timing that was slightly retarded from peak power, and a mixture that was slightly rich of peak power so they could just detect a 1% drop in power from the absolute max they could get on the dyno.

In combat at war emergency power that slight pull back was the difference between melting the other fighter planes engine or your engine and eating dinner with your friends.

When you get to the point that additional timing or a little leaner mixture no longer shows a power increase on the dyno you are already past that safe max power tune. Much easier to go big or go home with a record if you don't melt your toys on the first test pass.

[wobblywalrus]

Hotrod gives good advice.  Google "race fuel western australia."  Their big fuel dealer has a page on their website with equivalent fuels from different brands.  As an example, my bike is jetted on the dyno using a fuel that has equivalents in at least two other brands besides what I use.  Often you can set the bike up using a locally available race fuel that is close enough to ERC that the bike will work OK when you use event gas.  Do not hesitate to talk to the fuel company experts about this.

[mergatroyd]

And that all makes sense to me.  I didn't know last year what I didn't know.

My issue wasn't a piston-burning problem, more of an embarrassment at tech...

[Milwaukee Midget]

Okay - just dug out my notes from last year.

The fuels that ERC provided at Bonneville were

110K

A-8D

A-19A

MUL/B

Here are the specs -

http://ercracingfuels.com/sxs1.htm

Now we dynoed on equivalent fuel, and particularly because I ran a carburetor, I focused on the specific gravity to maintain a similar A/F ratio.  We used VP C-14 to test, and the ERC A-19A to race.  We had no problems with the event gas.

I wouldn't worry too much about the ERC gas.  This is one of their highest profile events, and they genuinely care about what they're selling you.

I've read horror stories about event gas.  Cooked pistons, valves, whole motors, etc.  Did crappy gas really cause those problems or was it just an easy thing to blame? 

I'm certain it happens from time to time, and more likely at facilities where the tanks are on site and poorly maintained, as is often the case at drag strips.  ERC brings out their trailer every event, topped off with fresh fuel and ready to dispense. 

I also think fingers tend to be pointed rather quickly in outward directions when one is facing an unexpected rebuild.