Author Topic: Head Bolts Or Studs  (Read 16618 times)

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Offline johnneilson

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 06:50:03 PM »
ARP, call, write or send smoke signals.

I have a customer about a block away from them and when I need fasteners, I visit my customer.

On a more serious note, ARP has many more fasteners than what is listed in the catalog. If you inquire with specific dimensions the sales Guys are really good and will find something close if not right on.

J
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2015, 12:17:57 AM »
During lunch I googled one of the on-line website merchants that sells bike parts.  I got the 'zuki part number for a head bolt for a 2006 GSX600R.  It is 11117-29G00.  Then I typed that number into a Google and did a search.  Lots of responses.  One was partzilla.com  Its site listed all of the other Suzi models that use the bolt.  There were many, including modern ones.  This is just an example.  Use the net to get your hard to find parts.  Once you learn how to do it, it is hard to not find what you need.

Put two nuts on a stud and tighten them together.  Then remove the stud like a bolt.  This is "double nutting" and studs can be removed while the engine is in the frame.  This makes it easier to take off the head and cylinder block. 

Offline BasementBorn

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2015, 10:56:03 AM »
I was able to find the part number and was searching for other bikes that had the same one listed as well. I figured maybe ARP had something listed for another bike that might actually fit but they just didn't know type of deal. So far the best I have been able to come up with is using slightly longer studs and cutting them down like Fordboy was saying. Seems like a pretty good option if I can't track down something that is a dead on fit.

For finding the needed stud length I am guessing I just need the total depth from the seat in the head to the bottom of the bore in the block? The back story is APE was checking to see if they have studs that will work, the head is with me and the block is at their machine shop so I just gave them the depth from the seat to the bottom of the head. I don't have the total length handy but I do have a parts motor I can get the measurement from so I can talk with ARP.
Gabe Gorton
Gorton Racing 1060 650APS-BG
Team Banana 1361 F/CPRO

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2015, 11:57:14 PM »
Studs use rolled threads.  Cut threads are not as strong.  It is important to find studs or have them made with rolled threads.

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2015, 01:52:35 AM »
... Put two nuts on a stud and tighten them together.  Then remove the stud like a bolt...
All ARP studs are available with a recessed hex, for an Allen wrench.
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2015, 11:42:14 AM »
True, you could use the double nutting or Allens wrench, but going back a few posts, the big advantage to a stud, especially in an aluminum block, is that you're not always grinding on the threads rotationally in the block every time you take the head off.  All the threads in the block are engaged, the pull is straight, rather than straight AND rotational, and the friction and drawing forces are handled with the hardened steel nut.

I hate helicoils . . . 
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2015, 12:36:19 PM »
"I hate helicoils . . .  ".

There are better alternatives to "Helicoils" for but thats another subject. Thread inserts of any kind are a bit of an abomination. They should be avoided if at all possible.  :-D :-D :evil:

Pete
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 12:38:56 PM by Peter Jack »

Offline salt27

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2015, 01:47:59 PM »

"I hate helicoils . . .  ".

There are better alternatives to "Helicoils" for but thats another subject. Thread inserts of any kind are a bit of an abomination. They should be avoided if at all possible.  :-D :-D :evil:

Pete

Pete, Would you mind elaborating on "better alternatives to Helicoils".

We do a bit of offroading  and have a constant battle with threads in aluminum.

A new thread subject post may be appropriate.   :roll:

Thank you, Don

« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 02:05:10 PM by salt27 »

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2015, 05:22:04 PM »
Don and anyone else who's interested, you can check out this link for some ideas and go from there. I've always preferred the Keensert type of thread restoration and have even made my own out of bolts when necessary. Google is your friend.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete

Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2015, 05:24:14 PM »
Keenserts are solid threaded inserts.they have self contained pins to go into the parent material. to lock in place.
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2015, 05:33:59 PM »
i shouldn't, but i am going to say that i have put lots and lots of single thread inserts in lots and lots of aircraft parts. And I think they are great. What is it about Helicoils you don't like?

Offline Glen

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2015, 07:30:07 PM »
Like Rich Fox, I have installed hundreds on AC and other apps as well as race cars. :cheers:
Glen
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Offline BasementBorn

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2015, 08:44:25 PM »
6So as far as my original post, most desirable would be proper length head studs. I won't argue that one bit. Next would be cut threads in longer than needed studs. Obviously not ideal because the threads are cut in and not rolled in as part of the bolt which makes the stud weaker because the stud is not built to be used that way, understandable. Boring deeper a hole in the bore may be an option given there is enough material to do so. Thread replacement, whether in helicoil or some other form is clearly the last option. Still an option but something that should be used as a temporary solution if needed. Am I correct in summing this thread up to date?

For the sake of conversation, my final decision on this is to measure my dummy block and head and see if ARP has studs that will work. My next option is to use the studs APE makes for the 750 and trim them down for the 600 or see if there is room to get them further in to the block. Thanks for all the help.
Gabe Gorton
Gorton Racing 1060 650APS-BG
Team Banana 1361 F/CPRO

Offline joea

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2015, 09:15:27 PM »
stock head bolts can keep quite a bit of pressure sealed up also....

Offline BasementBorn

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Re: Head Bolts Or Studs
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2015, 09:22:16 PM »
That's true. Pushing 25ish more PSI in to the cylinders makes me worry a bit though. I don't want the head bolts to be weak link if I can avoid it.
Gabe Gorton
Gorton Racing 1060 650APS-BG
Team Banana 1361 F/CPRO