Author Topic: safety wire front axle  (Read 9528 times)

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Offline rouse

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2015, 08:55:23 AM »
Bo-
4130HT Is has a very good looking tensile strength when that's all you pay attention to. However it is very brittle and low impact strength and fatigues relatively fast.

That material was required as opposed to 4130 Normalized (4130N) which has a lower tensile, but the other mechanical properties are much better for the severe service of a race car chassis. The aviation industry outlawed the use of 4130ht back in the 30's, so it wouldn't have taken much research on the part of the builders and/or sanctioning body to know better than use that grade of material. By the time they figured out that there was a big problem nearly every car running was built with 4130ht, "what a deal!"

The biggest problem as for as I'm concerned is that once the issue was figured out, no one had any idea where or why the requirement came from in the first place.

That's why I tend to question folks when they start demanding things that don't make good engineering sense, in the name of safety. Is it really safer???

Rouse

   
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Online Peter Jack

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2015, 11:47:42 AM »
Would it be acceptable to run a loop of wire around the fork leg just above the axle and twist it. Then run the twisted wire down across the axle opening and back through the notch at the bottom of the leg. Then finally run the wires up around either side of the axle and twist them there. With that the axle shouldn't go anywhere and no structural part is affected.

Common sense is going to be required by both the person doing the wiring and the inspector. I hope this is a solution to the issue.

Pete

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 11:40:56 PM »
Thanks, Rouse for posting that.  It was the 1970's when I had all sorts of problems with chrome moly and it probably was that stuff.

Offline Koncretekid

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2015, 08:32:27 AM »
First, I am "unflushing" the pinch bolts on one of my bikes so I can safety wire it.  Placing a small spacer between the bolt head and folk on a ~10mm longer bolt. 

Second, on certain bikes, I have always questioned why we drill through a high stress point area to safety wire a recessed nut that can't turn without removing the pinch bolts.
I like this idea the best,although sourcing a proper longer axle bolt may be a problem.  I'm surprised that the bike manufacturers don't offer a special axle that can be safety wired, as I've never been associated with a bike racing organization that didn't require it.  Also, it might be a good idea to check with dealers and other bike racing organizations to see what they are doing.  AMA should have an answer!
Tom
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Offline bak189

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2015, 09:42:13 AM »
REMEMBER....................Always question Authority...............................................................................
Question authority.....always

Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2015, 09:56:36 AM »
Sez who?!?!?  :-D
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Offline rouse

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2015, 10:21:55 AM »
Sez who?!?!?  :-D

Me; if it don't pass the smell test, something is probably not right.

As for as safety wire, proper technique has been perfected for decades in the aircraft industry, so that would be my first clue as to whats right or not.

rouse
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Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2015, 05:10:56 PM »
Johnnie, I am on your side. I was just questioning bak189's authoritative comment!  :-D
The US Army air farce taught me how to safety wire those fling wing things! And I never lost my Jesus nut! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_nut :cheers:

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Offline rouse

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2015, 05:23:26 PM »
Woody,

That's the one you pray don't come off before it does, wouldn't help much after :-D

Rouse
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Offline edinlr

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2015, 10:50:14 PM »
I ran my 2015 H2 Ninja at the ECTA in Ohio last weekend and only drilled and wired the pinch bolts.  They accepted that.  I can see how on older bikes the axle nut would have been an issue, especially when there was a cap at the bottom of the fork that would have allowed the axle to drop out.  I will even go along with wiring the axle nut on that old design.  With the new radial brakes holding the wheel in position and the pinch bolts pretty much locking the axle in, I just don't see the need for drilling the forks for wiring the axle.  Getting the axle back into position is nearly impossible and I really hate drilling into an engineered part like that.  My thinking is that the rule needs to be revised to say that they axle nut has to be wired if it is NOT restrained by the pinch bolts in the forks.  Come on tech guys, think about this!
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Offline sofadriver

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Re: safety wire front axle
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2015, 01:55:15 AM »
I ran my 2015 H2 Ninja at the ECTA in Ohio last weekend and only drilled and wired the pinch bolts.  They accepted that.  I can see how on older bikes the axle nut would have been an issue, especially when there was a cap at the bottom of the fork that would have allowed the axle to drop out.  I will even go along with wiring the axle nut on that old design.  With the new radial brakes holding the wheel in position and the pinch bolts pretty much locking the axle in, I just don't see the need for drilling the forks for wiring the axle.  Getting the axle back into position is nearly impossible and I really hate drilling into an engineered part like that.  My thinking is that the rule needs to be revised to say that they axle nut has to be wired if it is NOT restrained by the pinch bolts in the forks.  Come on tech guys, think about this!

I don't think tech should be put in the position of determining which axle configurations should be safety wired and which shouldn't.  It's enough to just say all axles must be wired.  I'll guarantee the insurance company agrees.  These days no organization is going to back off on any safety related rule.

Personally, having my axles "pretty much" locked in just doesn't do it for me.
Mike in Tacoma

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