Author Topic: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?  (Read 13892 times)

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Offline Emil Shuffhausen

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2015, 01:04:15 AM »
Wow. Lots of advice. I feel like Vinnie Barbarino (I'm so confused).

I know what you guys are talking about with regards to the cheapest way. I'm a plumber and I fix cheap plumbing almost every day. Yeah, they paid for it twice.  Having said that, a good TIG is still pretty expensive. I might be able to swing that Dynasty 200DX, but it might be a couple of months.  If we could talk MIG, though, how about Miller's 212 Auto Set? Rated output is 160 Amps at 24.5 VDC, 60% duty cycle. It's 230V only. That's OK for me. I'll be getting my garage wired for 220. I work with electricians and we get an employee discount.

Thanks.
I'm not really Michael Caine's character from "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels".

Lee Owens

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2015, 01:51:05 AM »
The 212 Auto Set would be a satisfactory choice. It will certainly do the job you're looking for and it takes the larger spools of wire.

I would suggest lots of practice before you start welding on the car. To ensure that your welds are sound be sure to clean the area to be welded thoroughly and I'd suggest using a slight weave between the two pieces to ensure adequate penetration in both.

Good luck with your project and even more importantly, have fun.

Pete

Offline Buickguy3

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2015, 09:43:40 AM »
   If you can wait until August for Speed Week, One of the race teams [sorry I'm old and can't put a name to them], is a Miller dealer and brings a variety of machines to the Salt for you to use and demo. You can get good advice there and touch and feel a bunch of good machines. Personally I'd hold out for a Miller Syncrowave 200 and add water cooling. Just my nickel's worth.
   Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
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Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2015, 09:56:43 AM »
Speed Week Miller man is Burton Brown: http://victorymotorsports.org/
All models are wrong, but some are useful! G.E. Box (1967) www.designdreams.biz

Offline jimmy six

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2015, 04:57:56 PM »
Don't be set on one type. I started with oxy/act because I had it and learned on exhaust systems. Never lost a weld using it. Moved to a Lincoln AC/DC 225 stick and got pretty good with it but used certified steam fitter welders to do my frame work. Most could not believe I had DC at home. Now we mostly use a Hobart 200+ MIG; the more I use it the better I get. My son built his first 1/2mile dirt car with this machine. Good Luck.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 07:36:22 AM by SPARKY »
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Offline ken s

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2015, 08:28:45 PM »
 One expense never mentioned is the fire expense of a splatter welder (i.e. mig, stick). No splatter with a tig or oxy/accet torch when done correctly, no hot sparks flying around setting everything within 15 ft on fire  including your clothes. Not to mention the occasional splatter spark going in your ; shirt sleeve, collar, shoe , ears, glove.  Then you have the cleanup expense from all that molten metal flying around besides what adheres firmly next to the weld.
  Overall a tig is less expensive and easier to weld with. Cheaper to pay a higher cost once up front than continuous higher expense on the backside . At least your rod (or wire)goes on the weld instead of the floor.  It's also easier than mig and stick in out of position welds.

  Yup, Im prejudiced.  :-D

 

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2015, 01:09:40 AM »
Each process has its strengths and weaknesses. Developing the hand skills for the process you choose is what's important. Examine the alternatives, decide which you want to use and then practice until you can produce a quality weld.

Pretty simple really.

Pete

Offline killacycle

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 01:49:22 PM »
Take a few welding classes at your local welding supply store. Takes a few Saturdays, but it is _well_ worth it. Begin with a basic MIG and flux-core class.

You will discover that you will ultimately want both a MIG and a TIG machine. Most folks that are serious welders own both types of machines because they each have their advantages and disadvantages. They also typically own a plasma cutter and an Oxy/Acet touch as well. Of course, you will need a 4 inch grinder. You can be a good welder, or a good grinder. :-)

I would begin with a decent quality 120 volt MIG welder. (Like a Lincoln model 140, about $500, plus tank.) See if you can find one used with the tank on Craigslist. It is much better to buy a decent welder used than a crappy low-end welder new.

Play with it. Get the hang of both MIG and flux core. Build some sort of trailer, decorative patio railing, welding table or "widget" project to get the feel for it and to understand its attributes and limitations. Use both MIG and flux core. Flux-core typically makes a stronger weld. MIG typically makes a neater weld.

Get someone with some experience to help you fabricate your driver's compartment and roll cage. (You will likely find that person while you are taking your welding classes at your local welding supply store.) You need the advice and help with those parts because your life depends on those parts. Once you get the roll cage built, (best done using TIG) you can very likely build the rest of the chassis yourself with the welder of your choice.

Bill D.
(KillaCycle)
KillaCycle

Offline tallguy

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2015, 10:16:32 PM »
Important comments about TIG welding:

TIG (tungsten inert gas) welding is the process commonly referred to as
"Heliarc" -- which is a copyrighted name owned by the Linde Corporation,
who developed the process using helium as the shielding gas.  Argon is
more popular, as it shields better . . . although helium is useful in some
cases, due to different heat effects compared to argon.  By the way,
Linde also makes nice TIG welding machines.  I used to own one.  And I
am a HUGE fan of TIG welding.  I absolutely love it, and have been doing
it (as well as other welding processes) for decades.

The difference between TIG welding and others is that since in this
process, the tungsten (so it won't melt) electrode is non-consumable,
any filler material must be fed into the weld puddle by hand.  The heat
input is controlled independently of this, generally by a foot-operated
pedal.

Which brings me to my more important comments. . .

In "stick" welding, where the welding rod gets consumed, and in
MIG welding, where the wire electrode gets consumed, the filler
material automatically flows into the weld puddle -- and this flow
is generally enough to prevent cracking of the weld as it cools.

But in TIG welding, you could pour too much heat and too little
filler material into the weld.  This typically can cause the weld to
crack, and a cracked weld is like NO WELD!  This is because a crack
can spread very easily under a small amount of force, due to stress
concentration.  A familiar example of this?  Bite a potato chip bag
and it will tear quite easily. 

When TIG welding, except in special (rare) circumstances, it's
important to add enough filler material to provide strength and
prevent cracking.  (That's the brief lesson . . . more details on
this are available, if you care to ask.)

Offline Buickguy3

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2015, 11:26:25 PM »
  Tallguy, continue the lesson. We're listening. [And at mt age I haven't got much time left].  :-D

      Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
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Offline SPARKY

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2015, 07:46:59 AM »
I have both built a car where I did most of the welding, and one where I had team members who were professionals do it---spend the time to learn to cope your frame properly  and from time to time have a welder come by and tack it  wait until you get the whole car frame built before you do any final welds.  YOU have many joys and frustrations coming----but you are about to embark on something that few will experience---the frustration and reward of building a car from scratch

SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION----it is a built car not an assembled car

WELCOME to the sick addiction---have fun    :cheers:

After thinking about this some more---no one has mentioned that TIG welders also have stick capability--If you bought a TIG you could learn to tack very well with stick

I would heed Tall Guy  it wasn't that long ago that the FAA    ONLY     let planes with cromolly tubing frames be welded with gas.

a good stick weld on mild steel tubing properly prepared is hard to beat.

If you think you will continue as a car hobbyist  you will eventually want TIGs versatility with different metals
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 10:14:52 PM by SPARKY »
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Offline pipehack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2015, 06:56:45 PM »
 Can a frame be O/A welded? Yes, I know IT CAN be done, but will it pass tech?

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2015, 08:48:59 PM »
If it's done properly, yes.

Pete

Offline Emil Shuffhausen

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2015, 09:57:15 PM »
I've decided against the MIG. It will be either a MIG/TIG combo machine or a TIG/stick. The TIG costs more. A lot more. I'll just save up longer. I don't like making big (elective) purchases on credit. I have my income tax refund, plus I'll be making a big scrap metal run sometime soon. I'm a plumber and I keep all the copper and brass that I remove, along with pretty much any other metal. I kinda go overboard with it. I have buckets of "junk" metal, buckets of electrical cord, plus about 130 garbage disposals. (copper wire in the motor). It's enough to fill up a buddy's 16' trailer. That should get me pretty close to the TIG package deal. It includes a water-cooled torch plus the cooling unit.

I'm not really Michael Caine's character from "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels".

Lee Owens

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2015, 10:28:09 PM »
Water cooling is definitely the way to go. Make sure the machine is AC/DC with high frequency. That way you can handle anything that comes along. Also make sure that you're able to do most of your welding in the middle ranges of the machines capacity. Welders aren't as efficient when you're working them at the top end. I'm liking your approach. You'll do just fine.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete