Author Topic: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?  (Read 13935 times)

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Offline Emil Shuffhausen

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First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« on: March 02, 2015, 10:33:10 PM »
Some of you guys convinced me not to give up the dream when I found out a chassis is not as cheap as I had been told...by the guy who sold me a fiberglass tank.
Anyway- I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a welder. I was thinking TIG, but the entry price is steep. A guy at a local welding supply shop told me I could do what I want with a Millermatic 190 MIG. Specs say up to 5/16" steel and 1/4" aluminum. 140 Amps at 21 VDC, 40% Duty Cycle. I'm certainly not going to do any production work. Just my own stuff. Does this welder sound OK?

Thanks again. Lee
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Lee Owens

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2015, 12:38:25 AM »
Lee, I'm a weldor / fabricator so I'm speaking from that perspective. My experience has been people tend to buy what they feel they can minimally get away with and then quickly find out that they'd have been better off with more capacity. I realize most people are on a fairly restricted budget but if you can see your way to buying the smallest of the full sized machines that come on wheels you'll be better off. You'll have capacity that should work for most of the race car work you want to do, you won't have to build a cart for the machine and the best part is you'll be able to use full sized reels of wire. This is a far cheaper way to buy wire and you won't have to change it out nearly as often.

Just a tip. No matter what machine you end up buying, every time you change out a spool of wire remove the contact tip and blow out the liner from both ends. You'll save yourself a lot of feed problems.

Pete

Offline SPARKY

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2015, 08:36:23 AM »
 :cheers:

I would by nothing less than a Miller 250 or the equiv.  you will never regret it I have an Iron Man Hobart 210 which is now a 220 or 225  an I consider it marginal  on some of the things you will need to do as your SALT FEVER drives you to fab your way toward the SALT!!!!!!!


Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

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Offline Sumner

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2015, 09:07:16 AM »
OK I'll buck the trend of my two buddies above, and love them both, but think the Miller you looked at will probably do over 95% of the 'steel' welding you will do.  I've build trailers, all of what I have accomplished with the lakester and other projects with a Miller 175 or 180 can't remember and I'm not home.

The only thing I didn't do was the final weld on the front axles...



... I tacked them and then took them to a welding shop due to the thickness of the metal and wanting good penetration.  Other than that everything was done with the Miller Mig.

When guys talk about what boats will handle at sea the usual response is that it isn't the boat but the captain.  Here it isn't the welder but the operator.  You need to know how to put down a safe weld under different circumstances and know the limitations of the welder and yours.  If in doubt tack it together and have someone else weld it.  That usually doesn't cost that much as you have done all the time consuming work.

So with that in mind and if you have no welding experience welding up a cart for the welder would be a good first project.  When I bought my TIG I could of welded up the cart very quickly with the MIG but made myself do it with the TIG to gain some experience.

I wouldn't count on using the 190 for much of the aluminum work you would probably need to do like building tanks and such.  You just don't have the same control over the weld with a spool gun as you would with the TIG especially if you hadn't welded much.  You can get a spool gun for my 180 but a good Miller distributor told me that I wouldn't be using it for much as the 180 didn't have the power to weld thicker aluminum with it and it would probably blow thru thin stuff.  I have about $2200 in my 225 amp TIG buy the time I bought it and tanks and supplies and such and now even more but it has been a great investment but for what you want to do I'd start with the MIG and learn how to use it right (college workshop night class maybe??),

Sumner

Offline awelker

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 09:14:24 AM »
I purchased my welder specifically for building my bellytank and went through the same decision process.  Also considered Mig & Tig and eventually bought a Miller Dynasty 200DX Tig.  Pricey but is small and portable enough to take along to Bonneville.  Tig is also handy in that mild steel, stainless steel, and aluminum can all be welded with the same shielding gas.

In retrospect in looking at the construction of my chassis there are some welds at odd positions that I can't imagine trying to do with a mig gun.

Just my opinion.

Andy

Offline bearingburner

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 09:37:18 AM »
When we built the chassis on our lakester we cut,fitted and tacked the tubing with a MIG. When I had what I thought would be 8 hr work I had a certified professional welder come and TIG weld the joints. Had to make sure the MIG wire was the same composition as the TIG rod.He bought his own welder,and gas and plugged into my outlet.

Offline manta22

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 10:49:28 AM »
I guess I'm the "odd man out" here-- I use a torch with oxy-acetylene gas. One thing that I found out quickly when I started out was that I was using a torch that was WAY too big for the gauge tubing that I was welding. I replaced the big torch with a much smaller new one made by Craftsman- one that has now been out of production for a long time. I liked it a lot but now no one makes replacement parts for it so I bought a small Uniweld "aircraft torch" to replace it. Victor also makes a similar model.

I like the versatility of gas welding. The heat control is excellent and by changing tips and gas pressure, a very wide range of things can be welded, brazed, soldered, or pre- heated. I simply do not weld heavy stuff myself; I leave that to someone equipped to do that properly.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd use oxy- propane since acetylene has gotten so expensive in the last few years.

Whichever welding technique you choose, practice, practice, practice!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline fordboy628

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 11:59:02 AM »
I'm a TIG man myself, just for the versatility and control.

MIG is more for production work in the world I live in.
 :cheers:
Fordboy
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Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 02:07:14 PM »
I am with Mark, TIG is for building race cars and MIG is for building trailers. TIG is so much more versatile in race car fabrication and remember that you are originally buying it to build your car but you will have it for years (I have owned my original Airco TIG machine for over 30 years) and you will be finding project after project that it will provide you with the best welds. A really good web site to see various types of welding done and great tips on how to weld is Jody Collier's Welding tips and tricks (http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/  ) .

Have fun.

Rex
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Offline jl222

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 04:37:05 PM »
 Thanks Rex  Great site. Will be using it. Close to buying a Miller diversion 180 tig welder 125 or 220 volts- welds .030- 3/16 aluminum or steel - folding and rolling bench and 2 clamps that are made for it. 24 good reviews on it. Will be welding stainless and aluminum 1st.

                        JL222  
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 04:46:14 PM by jl222 »

Offline Sumner

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 08:26:59 PM »
...and MIG is for building trailers....

Ouch that hurts  8-).  I'll bet there are a lot of trailer welded cars out there that have set records.  Some probably even have done it with a stick welder.  I know of one Stude that got its owner a hat and has run over 250 without a TIG weld on it at the time :-D.

I think we shouldn't scare someone away from building a car because they don't have a TIG, can't afford one or whatever.  I couldn't afford a TIG until a few years ago but I'm sure glad I didn't wait as there would of been a lot of things I never would of built or had fun building during all those years.  

Besides the cost there is also a larger learning curve with a TIG.  Don't get me wrong I love my TIG and would sure hate to part with it but you can build a race car with a MIG and if that is what one can afford now then I say go for it,

Sum

P.S. John I'd try to move up to a TIG over 200 amps so on that thicker aluminum you aren't running up against the duty cycle so much and having it cut off.  I weld a lot of 3/16 with mine and have had to weld some a little heavier and have been very happy that I have a 225 amp.  3/16 on aluminum vs. steel sucks up a lot more heat.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 08:29:14 PM by Sumner »

Offline awelker

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 09:06:12 PM »
I totally agree with Sumner on the 200 amps or more for the 3/16 aluminum.

Also look at the Tig torch ratings on AC for aluminum. Many "200 amp" air cooled tig torches are only rated to 150 amps AC. Even with 2 heavy gloves it becomes impossible to hold. After getting my water cooled torch I can't imagine going back to air cooled. Much more compact and only takes a light glove.

Andy

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 09:21:50 PM »
I agree with both Sum and Andy. I'd just add that it never hurts at any time when you're welding to throw in a little preheat. It will usually make the job significantly easier, especially if you're using a marginal machine.

Pete

Offline salt27

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 11:05:58 PM »
What Sum and Andy said x2.

I bought a Miller 165 econo-tig and it's not very fond of aluminum.   :x

  Don

Offline tauruck

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Re: First time chassis builders: What welder did you use?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 11:54:31 PM »
Welding machines are as critical as safety equipment.
You're putting your life on the line in a car you built.

Get the biggest and best, get into debt if you have to.
The good machines make you a better weldor.

Bargains are the sandals you buy when going on vacation.  :cheers: