Author Topic: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester  (Read 13573 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline entropy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick"
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2015, 01:50:15 AM »
   Not sure that this applies to the Salt, but in our drag racing days in stock class we noticed from a picture of our car at mid track that the front was lifted about 4-5 inches from what it was on the starting line. We had set the toe at rest. We found that when we raised the front end to the mid track attitude everything changed. Camber and toe. Worth taking a look at.
   Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

TFA lakester is front wheel drive, without suspension and only 350-ish hp, so i'm guessing lift will be minimal????

Offline manta22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4137
  • What, me worry?
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick"
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2015, 10:56:10 AM »
Doug;

That's called "bump steer"-- toe change as the wheel goes up and down. Not good. Lots of bump steer makes handling squirrely.

A well designed front suspension should have less than about 1/16" toe change as the wheel goes up and down over a 2" travel.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline entropy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2015, 06:08:04 AM »
july, 2015 followup for the Quick Trick kit to set toe in

I received the kit and it is beautiful.  Works by clamping a frame onto the outside of ea wheel.  It has bars parallel to the wheel but very low to the ground so that a tape measure can measure the distance before and after the front axle.  The difference in those measurements = toe (adjusted for wheel size).
The idea is simple & straight forward
But...
the process depends on perfectly & consistently clamping the frames to the wheels.  
TFA's wheels are custom made and the lips where the device clamps onto the wheel are not quite a "factory" profile.  Tiny mounting differences = big differences in measured/calculated toe.
so...
I couldn't get consistent/reproducible results anything near the targeted 1/8" toe in.  
For factory wheels the Quick Trick alignment probably works perfectly.

At that point i was 100% more knowledgeable & sensitive to the difficulty in accurately setting toe.
so, google introduced me to Mike Loescher of TrueLaser Track
http://www.truelasertrack.com/trihub.htm
Mike's hub-based laser tool allows even me to set toe REPRODUCIBLY to about .020" (or less) of target even in my restricted length garage.  I only can get 7' clearance in front of my f axle.  14' gives much better accuracy
It obviously ain't cheap, but it is VERY SATISFYING to use.
karl
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 08:02:49 AM by entropy »

Offline kiwi belly tank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2015, 10:53:28 AM »
Glad to see you found something that works for ya Karl.
Now that you have accuracy you might want to start out with zero on your FWD, 1/8 in will probably be a little washy on the salt.
  Sid.

Offline entropy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2015, 11:22:38 AM »
Glad to see you found something that works for ya Karl.
Now that you have accuracy you might want to start out with zero on your FWD, 1/8 in will probably be a little washy on the salt.
  Sid.

Sid,
Even with the TrueLaser Track (TLT) it takes a bit to develop a methodology which consistently gives high precision results.  Randy & I practiced, did about 10 measurements, then read the directions (manly behavior!).  In only 5 more measurements we got pretty consistent.  About 45 degrees of twist on the tie rod end predictably gives about .045" toe change, more or less. 
     The point is that I feel kinda confident I could set toe in to about 1/32nd (.031") if that was the target.  But from previous posts, i got the impression that there was a reason (handling?) that folks pretty unanimously like toe in =  1/8th (.125") for salt.  I think Mike at TLT said he likes 0.000, but he readily said he knows nothing about salt.
hmmmmmm.... 
Start with toe in very close to zero, or start with current setting (.117"), that is the question.

Offline Peter Jack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3776
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2015, 01:37:08 PM »
I'd definitely start with zero toe with the front wheel drive. Anything else is probably going to produce some form of wandering.

Pete

Offline kiwi belly tank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3132
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2015, 02:03:25 PM »
Zero or just a fly $hit of toe in to be sure you dont have some toe out is a good start point for a (driven) front end, it's a kinda safe place to start out. From there you can make small adjustments to see if you can improve your vehicle & like I've said before, this is not a fits all situation.
  Sid.   

Offline manta22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4137
  • What, me worry?
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2015, 08:13:48 PM »
Under power a FWD will try to toe-in so starting with an initial toe-in probably isn't necessary. It depends on the compliance of your front end, though.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline John Burk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 695
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2015, 10:03:19 PM »
Everything I've read says toe-in helps straight line stability .

Neil I don't agree that FWD causes toe-in . With FWD the contact patch ought to be inline with the steering axis so no compliance toe change .

Offline manta22

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4137
  • What, me worry?
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2015, 10:23:16 PM »
FWD pulls the front wheels forward so that takes up all the slack in your ball joints, heim joints, etc. It also slightly distorts the suspension since it isn't infinitely stiff.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Buickguy3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1026
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2015, 11:34:34 PM »
   That all depends on how much caster you give it. More caster tends to induce toe in and works in conjunction with the FWD to force toe in. If you use positive caster and 0 toein you should be good to go. If it tends to hunt a little add a little toe. [Combination of wine and science].
   Doug  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
I keep going faster and faster and I don't know why. All I have to do is live and die.
                   [America]

Offline entropy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Setting toe with "Quick Trick" - not useful for TFA's lakester
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2015, 06:36:21 AM »
Thanks much guys. :cheers:
Somehow i got toe in = 1/8" fixed in my head.  Everyone was telling me go much smaller and i just didn't hear.
dumb-azero me.
karl