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Author Topic: Motorcycle Modified class rule change  (Read 8724 times)

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Offline DaveB

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Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« on: January 14, 2015, 10:00:39 AM »
I am very impressed by the SCTA rule book, but I do want to make a comment/question about a change that was just made to the motorcycle rules that are posted on the front page of the site.

The change to motorcycle modified production now says:

7.F MODIFIED PRODUCTION – M, MPS

" The Modified classes are intended for “modified” production models and not purpose-built racing bikes.

These classes include all On-Road, On-Off-Road and
Off- Road only models and limited production models (more than 50).

These classes do not include factory-produced Road Racing or any other specialized racing models UNLESS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC."

The last sentence used to stop after the word "models" but now adds "UNLESS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC". It appears to me that certain factory produced road racers will now be allowed in the Modified Production class. I believe these bikes previously were only allowed in the motorcycle Special Construction class(A or APS). I believe this will allow 125 and 250 TZ Yamahas and maybe RS Hondas. Possibly some others also. I say this because I believe many years of the TZ Yamahas were well over 50 and sold to anybody with the money. Also they were not that expensive in the scheme of things.

There are still a lot of even more specialized factory road racers that will not qualify for the modified class but the TZ may be an unintended consequence of this change. The TZ or RS bikes are in a class by themselves compared to any modified street bike.
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2015, 10:26:53 AM »
Well in 2005 it said
Frames must be based on an OEM type frame or production replacement having similar geometry.  This class includes factory produced road racing and off road motorcycles and models of which less than 500 were produced.  Factory limited production or "works" models are included in this class.

I didn't look back further because that would entail getting out of my chair and getting an older book our of the basement, but since it was not in bold type, I suspect it was like that before.   So over the last 10 years has there been a rush of those bikes racing on the salt?  The idea was to move the bikes that were not available to the public to special construction and leave the ones that were in modified. 
I think it is working...  :cheers:
and finally I see an appropriate use of SSS new emoticon... you are  :dhorse:  :-D
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Offline DaveB

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2015, 11:14:12 AM »
My four year old and newer rule books don't say "This class includes factory produced road racing" like your 2005 book. Thank you for pointing out how this progression of what constitutes modified has taken place over the last 10 years.

I don't see how understanding this progression is beating a dead horse since the wording is changing in the 2015 book, but thanks anyway.
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2015, 12:22:34 PM »
I think they should now split the Modified category and allow for more motorcycle classes.  We need a thicker rule book and more open records.
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2015, 03:15:07 PM »
And Stan's reply..... well that's Stan....
Dave, the new wording was clarifying the rule so it was like it had always been before they reworded to to make it more understandable.... thus the dead horse.... followed by a smiley, because it is all fun....  :roll:
except for maybe Stan who wants to see more classes so he can gain a competitive edge...  :cheers: :cheers:
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 04:10:41 PM »
Just waiting for springtime and the cherry-picking season.
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Offline DaveB

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 04:22:43 PM »
 :-)
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Offline makr

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 09:56:59 PM »
A lot of those old Modified records were set on TZs.
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Offline DaveB

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2015, 08:50:17 AM »
I see that now. Thank you. :-o
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Offline makr

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2015, 11:03:03 PM »
As I understand it Scott Guthrie set a lot of those fast records, in Modified, on various TZs and then was part of the rules committee that then changed them so you couldn't do the same. Not sure if that is the truth, and I don't really care.

It doesn't really matter as TZs are really outdated anyway, and are getting collectable and expensive.
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Offline SaltPeter

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 03:51:51 PM »
They way i read it this Rule change seems to contradict itself.

The first sentence says

7.F MODIFIED PRODUCTION – M, MPS

" The Modified classes are intended for “modified” production models and not purpose-built racing bikes.

Then says
 
These classes do not include factory-produced Road Racing or any other specialized racing models UNLESS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC."



The late Model Yamahas 5KE TZ and the Honda NXA RS 250s are about as powerful a "available to the public" 250 as you can get at around 90hp ... 
you just can't get anywhere near that power out of a 250 Road Bike ... I run a Suzuki RGV 250 (2 stroke V Twin) and they top out at about 75 hp.

I always thought that Modified was for Modified versions of the Bikes that could run in the Production Classes and Special Construction was for

7.G SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION
The Special Construction class is intended for purpose-built race bikes.

If the existing Records are held by Bikes no longer eligible then it would have made more sense to retire the Records rather than re introduce purpose-built racing bikes back into Modified.

Pete  :cheers:

 

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Offline bak189

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 04:26:57 PM »
SCTA/BNI..... NEVER retires old records..............they just change the class ......like SC-AG-1300 in 1990
they just changed it to SC -1300......they had a streamliner sidecar record on the books, they allowed a NON-streamliner to run against that record....and that record stands to this day.  They just change when they get a NEW motorcycle chairman to what ever he/she feels like.............WHITHOUT TELLING THE RACERS IN THAT CLASS....new chairman ...new class ...........................one of the many reasons we stopped racing SCTA/BNI in 2002 and went with AMA/FIM ........................................................................................
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 06:20:17 PM »
Bob --

I've always been a fan of yours.  And you know I don't know s-hit about motorcycles, let alone sidecars (although I was an alternate driver (rider?) scheduled to drive (ride?) on SpeedWeek last year.

But . . .

I can't find the class SC/1300, let alone any 1300 class.

And I can't see how anyone can complain about losing a Streamlined class record to a non-Streamlined class vehicle that beat their record and the their record still stands 25 years later.

SCTA is not perfect.  Our volunteers earn every penny they get.  Please straighten our warped assess out on this one.

Remember, sour grapes sometimes make fine wine (Huh, Dan?).

Stan

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Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 11:51:40 PM »
Stan.  Are you still my alternative rider for this year?
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Offline Stainless1

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Re: Motorcycle Modified class rule change
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 12:26:43 AM »
Get out your old rule books kids.... no conspiracy here...

Quote from: Stainless1 on January 14, 2015, 03:15:07 PM

... The new wording was clarifying the rule so it was like it had always been before they reworded to to make it more understandable....  :roll:

Special construction.... read it after you read modified, race bikes available to the public are modified (if they make 50)... One offs and factory works racers are SC

Back in the 80's they even allowed factory works bikes in modified, now they are in SC.

 :dhorse:
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