(Note: LANDRACING.COM donations are not tax deductible)


This is a public forum. The opinions expressed here don't
necessarily reflect the feelings of The Folks That Run The Site (that's us)
unless we explicitly say so, ok?


Author Topic: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?  (Read 4996 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wobblywalrus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5068
  • Age: 66
  • Location: backwoods Oregon
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2019, 11:50:16 AM »
The law enforcement investigation results in Oregon are typically available using a "Public Information Request."

Offline Bob Drury

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2579
  • Age: 73
  • Location: Vancouver,Wa.
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2019, 12:08:07 PM »
  I don't for a minute think that discussions about safety are being dismissed in regards to the Alvord Desert Crash.
  About seven or ten (?) years ago on this site Ed and others were discussing trying to get permission to run on the Alvord Desert.
  As a native Oregonian who has never been to the site I pulled out a map and later posted that the nearest city of any size (think Hospital, Airport, etc.) was Lakeview, Oregon about a hundred miles west and requiring driving into Nevada to reach. The Alvord desert is used by Hang Glider and Wind Sailor's along with others and has limited if any patrol by the BLM, State or County Police. I tried to convince Ed and others who posted what I saw as a disaster waiting to happen. 
  As I wrote in yesterday's post, Ed and crew, etc., were underfunded, and having already been stymied by the BLM in trying to run at Black Rock decided to proceed with "testing" at Alvord while trying to promote the venture and fund a dream.
  I spoke with Ed several times over the past few years and never mentioned My concerns as He was such a nice, humble and positive person that believed He could achieve the "dream" that I wrote of in My previous post.
  Ed had several friends with engineering background's and as the project proceeded many more joined on board or at least provided technical advice.  I don't believe any of them took for granted that the end results of a high speed crash was survivable, and as Mike implied in a previous post... most likely isn't no matter what safety equipment is on board or built into the vehicle.
  Considering the speed Jessie was traveling (using My finger calculations) of one hundred yards in one half of a second, I doubt She or anyone else could have seen any object, pulled any chute or fire extinguisher or even said "oh, Subaru" before She became a memory of what was.  Take a look at the video taken from afar of the run.
  Take a good look at the wreckage photo's and tell Me what can be learned from that rubble.  I doubt that even a "black box" or telemetry to the pit's could clarify the explosive destruction of the vehicle.
  The lessons learned?  Read My previous post.
  Whom to blame? Read My previous post.
  As long as racer' race, accidents will occur, drivers will die, people will be devastated and questions will be unanswerable.
                                                                                        Bob Drury
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 12:09:45 PM by Bob Drury »
Bob Drury

Offline Rcktscientist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Age: 65
  • Location: San Diego, California
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2019, 02:33:16 PM »
This is a sad deal. About 30 years ago I picked up a good, popular LSR Book. As I went through the history I believe about half of the people died while attempting these records. That ratio dropped significantly in recent years, even though the speeds have increased. I build race cars, or should I say built, the liability is no longer worth it. The Jessi story is as I said, sad, but predictable. I believe it should not have happened. As we watch the well funded, engineered and executed Bloodhound project we have a huge contrast with the NAE. The speeds the Bloodhound will attempt are unprecedented and success is not guaranteed for Andy or the records. I don't expect, however, a suspension failure, hitting debris or similar problems will be encountered due to the diligence of the team.

Offline DaveL

  • New folks
  • Posts: 26
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Melbourne Australia

Offline ski123

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
  • Location: Distorted Fibula, Tennessee
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2019, 06:02:23 PM »
^^^ Wow! If the above video is accurate then she was a day and a half off course.  I think the NAE Team are keeping quiet about this whole situation just in case any law suits seem to pop up.  Keeping tight lipped may be the best move for them.  We all want to know more, that's fair too.  I couldn't imagine seeing the scrub brush coming at me at high speed, very scary.  I bet the jack rabbits were freaked out.

Offline gowing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Age: 56
  • Location: the western slope
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2019, 08:29:02 AM »
WOW is right! the video answers a lot of the questions that I had.

Offline J79

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area
  • J79 Exhaust from a F4 Phantom II
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2019, 05:34:20 PM »
A North American Eagle Jessi Combs 2016 477mph run on the Alvord Desert video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ17X8DoqS0
"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."

Offline J79

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area
  • J79 Exhaust from a F4 Phantom II
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2019, 07:50:48 PM »
Does anyone have information on the F104 Starfighter regarding if you were to go to go down the runway on full afterburner and take off at the appropriate speed, fly level, the speeds you would achieve based on the time? That would give you an indication of how long it would take to get to the 600mph range.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 08:22:42 PM by J79 »
"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."

Offline tallguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2019, 12:56:18 AM »
This is a sad deal. About 30 years ago I picked up a good, popular LSR Book. As I went through the history I believe about half of the people died while attempting these records. That ratio dropped significantly in recent years, even though the speeds have increased. I build race cars, or should I say built, the liability is no longer worth it. The Jessi story is as I said, sad, but predictable. I believe it should not have happened. As we watch the well funded, engineered and executed Bloodhound project we have a huge contrast with the NAE. The speeds the Bloodhound will attempt are unprecedented and success is not guaranteed for Andy or the records. I don't expect, however, a suspension failure, hitting debris or similar problems will be encountered due to the diligence of the team.

I sure hope everything goes well for Bloodhound.  But I'd be surprised if that massive operation to clear the
lake ("pan") bed of rocks included finding and removal of buried ones.  Yes, it's expensive.

Offline tallguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2019, 01:25:58 AM »
https://youtu.be/VksiNU-sSEo

Thanks, DaveL.  Watching this video told me more than we may ever be told (about the fatal crash) by anyone who was there or investigated it.  It appears that failure to brake effectively led to running off the smooth part of the lakebed at high speed, and impacting uneven ground.  This could certainly wreak havoc on the front wheel
and its supporting structure.  Assuming no driver error while driving, it looks like some kind of mechanical (or electrical or whatever) failure in chute deployment/function. Possibly not enough redundancy in the safety (braking) systems, apparently.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 01:30:45 AM by tallguy »

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Location: Clovis calif.
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2019, 01:52:48 AM »
 
 Seems like there would be more tire tracks from recovery vehicles?

                     jl222

Offline tallguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2019, 08:18:59 PM »
Tall Guy. Did the car hit an object that was above or on the surface or hit an object that was unnoticeable beneath the surface? Compared to the level of the surface, where was the object they hit and how big was it?
I was on the NAE team, but not present on the lakebed when Jessi crashed.  There is something to be learned
from this.  Maybe a more-thorough "fodding" (pre-inspecting of the race course) is in order, perhaps using
something like sonar to "look" for rocks several inches below the surface of the lakebed.  Thanks for reading.
[/quote]
[/quote]

J79, I don't know what Jessi hit, or details (of the apparent braking failure).  The NAE was equipped with 2
chutes.  It appears that no witnesses are eager to report details.  The video showing her tracks into the
bushes is very telling, but doesn't address root cause of the crash.  I'd be happy to share more info when I
know more, but my optimism about this is fading fast. 

Offline 4-barrel Mike

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3014
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Any fool can drive a V8
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2019, 09:17:51 PM »
Apparently, she was extremely ill in July.  Extracts from her FaceBook page, copied from another forum:

Quote
This is her post from July 28th: "
Thank you for the healing wishes also: past three days have been the best... still slow... still hurts... tho being able to stand for more that 10 minutes without wiggling around the whole time is a huge improvement... especially being able to host the SEMA Gala, walk to the hotel hot tub, and actually get in all by myself: such a blessing. Doing therapy daily... energy work has been the most effective... Kaiser can suck it."

This is from July 12th: "
17 days of being on bed rest and I?m ready for an adventure... mentally of course, cus physically I?m still laid up  After multiple doctors/therapists/healers we are getting closer to answers as to where this pain is stemming from, what it really is, and what the next steps will be. This is really jamming me up! Sorry if I haven?t been getting back to you."

This is from July 6th: "
?If I can?t have my legs, at least I have this view? was the motivation on this day. A few snaps by @sgtoepfer from the most amazing place I?ve been, northern Italy Dolomites, captures my mobility coming to a near end. This was the last day I could somewhat get around before the pinched nerve took over. Day 9 now and I?m amazed at how quickly 90-to-nothing happens, how we don?t always bounce back, and how much we take our legs for granted. I have faith this will come to an end with the right therapy, tho I would never wish this pain upon my worst enemy."

Mike
Mike Kelly - PROUD owner of the V4F that powered the #1931 VGC to a 82.803 mph record in 2008!

Offline tallguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2019, 09:03:55 PM »
A North American Eagle Jessi Combs 2016 477mph run on the Alvord Desert video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ17X8DoqS0

Thank you for posting that.  It looks like she didn't go into full afterburner mode very early in the run.

Offline J79

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Location: San Francisco Bay Area
  • J79 Exhaust from a F4 Phantom II
Re: Any news on what caused the North American Eagle F104 - Jessi Combs crash?
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2019, 05:48:51 PM »
It looks to me that within 1/4-1/2 mile of take off, she's into after burner. That would be early to me. I'm no expert and from what I remember reading, you might take 10 seconds slowly opening up the throttle, allowing the engine to get to 100%, then push the throttle farther into the after burner section. There is a lot of weight in that turbine that needs time to get to upper limits of RPM, plus you want to get the car into the 100mph range before you start adding more power so the engine does not suck dirt into it at the lower speeds.

I wonder if those 2 black looking lines perpendicular to her course about even where she's lighting the after burner are an indicator of where she should be using the after burner?

A North American Eagle Jessi Combs 2016 477mph run on the Alvord Desert video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ17X8DoqS0

Thank you for posting that.  It looks like she didn't go into full afterburner mode very early in the run.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 06:10:21 PM by J79 »
"My, people come and go so quickly here." Dorothy, from the movie Wizard of Oz.

"I have marveled often at the thin line that divides success from failure, and the sudden turn that leads from apparently certain disaster to comparative safety." Ernest Shackleton, Antarctic Explorer, 1874-1922.

From the movie Dr. Strangelove, General Jack D. Ripper:

"Mandrake, in the name of Her Majesty and the Continental Congress come here and feed me this belt boy... Mandrake, come over here, the Red Coats are coming!"

"He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious "automotive" bodily fluids."