Course markers

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Ah-hah! Now I get it.  I was  imagining that the balloon would be tethered to the spike via a piece of string or  cord.  I yield the point - tying directly to the nail would keep the balloon in place.

[Glen]

Since I am known for asking questions, I must ask why would you want these expensive pieces of foam? Have any tests been done on them, to see what the results are? I have seen funny cars hit foam on the race track at the drags that cover the timing lights and they do damage to the cars. So one of my questions is where is the data on these units?  

IMO what would be wrong with using 3 foot black balloons on other courses, using regular compressed air to fill them. We use them all the time at El Mirage, but there we use Helium and float them 15 feet in the air. Helium is expensive, and at Bonneville you could just use compressed air and tie them to the salt with an anchor. Pretty simple really and the cost would be much cheaper especially when bought in quantity. Sorry I don't have any data on hitting a balloon.

Tom G.

Tom, the foam blocks at the drag races only have two reflectors on them no electrics and they are not anchord to the track.
Glen

[BobDcuda]

My check's in the mail, direct to the SCTA office.

Is there any reason the SCTA/BNI couldn't kick in the difference to have markers on both #1 and #2, since they'll be saving on the usual, overall expense for four courses?

[desotoman]

'Splain to me why a piece of flexible foam on a stake should cost about $25. Or is that including installation...  

I'm not intending to detract from the importance of this effort- just puzzled by the cost. And also- curious just HOW DO you put those foot-long stakes into the salt?

Actually about $31.25 a piece as 6 are needed per mile if we go to the 8 mile, 48 total.  

Sum

Sum,

Don't forget you will need replacements on hand for the ones that get destroyed. How many I do not know.

Tom G.

If you don't use helium how are they going to fly?  If they are down on the ground have we accomplished much?

There are probably a number of solutions that will work, but right now we are dealing with an event that starts in less than 2 weeks.  

Sumner

Sum,

I think the balloons would be more visible than you think, but that is my opinion. Another thought is that these foam units take up a lot of room, and we do haul everything up and back.

Here is another option that I just saw in Wally world this morning and they are all of $3.88 each, but I found them pretty cheap when bought in quantity. They looked to be 5' tall and about 3" in diameter with what looked like a 1" hole through them. They are called Swim noodles, and come in all different colors, and are made of closed cell foam. Just Google Swim noodles.

Tom G.

Tom, the foam blocks at the drag races only have two reflectors on them no electrics and they are not anchord to the track.
Glen

Thanks Glen. It dawned on me that I was wrong on the timing lights, but by the time the light bulb went on I could not change my post.  Thanks again.

Tom G.

[Sumner]

I talked to Scott this morning and he said that with the response here that the 2nd course and now possibly even the one short course will be marked.  He is going to make sure that the markers will be made (he has commitments from others on that) and that extras will be on hand also.

We have to remember that SW is just next weekend for some of the course workers so this has to move forward right now.  For now lets just get the markers done and up and then work on other possible ideas for next year.

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this and maybe a different thread should be started with ideas for the future,

Sum

[Buickguy3]

   Here's what the battery and photocell do to the car at 219 mph. I know that was the speed because it recorded it when I hit it. Cringe when I think what would have happened if I had been over a couple of more inches. The pvc standard also went through the right front tire.

[MMorgan]

As part of the Jack Rogers team we have all spent a lot of time talking about course markers etc.  Over the winter and this spring I started working with Utah State University Extension to see what biodegradable options for marking are out there.  I work as part of USU Extension and spent a lot of time talking over the marking dyes that they currently use in their weed control program and for layout etc., especially on BLM properties.  As part of that conversation we began talking to Dow Chemical about some of the marking dyes that they have available, their properties, and also what else they have available that may not be commonly known. 

Gary Wilkinson is using similar dyes currently and we have talked a little bit about the options and will continue that conversation. 

I can offer to do 3' or so circles on the course as demarcation for each 1/4 mi. with the biodegradable dyes and do the upkeep during the event for a trial at the event here.  This would be done at no cost to the SCTA etc. for the trial.  If it is on the course itself it is visible to the drivers as they can see the course in front of them.  Having difficulty to see the lines on the edges of the course can be understandable. 

I think there is a lot of room for great ideas, like those that have been thrown out throughout this thread, and I think we should be trying some of these ideas and getting direct racer feedback and analyzing it as a whole land speed racing group for the safety of all competitors and also for the visibility each of us desires when making a pass.

Thoughts anyone?

[manta22]

I think the problem is that markers on the salt surface are not very visible-- sometimes not visible at all. The markers need to be raised a few feet above the ground.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[kiwi belly tank]

If anybody has a better idea (simple & impact safe) than Tom's balloons, I'd like to hear it!
  Sid.

[MMorgan]

Just in case what I was offering was misunderstood I will reiterate.  I am not saying to not do the other options such as balloons, great idea by the way, I am offering as an on top of option.  With the dye there could be markers on the salt in the middle of the course. If we can see the course directly in front of the vehicle we would be able to see markers that were there.  They would not change the consistency of the course etc.  It would just be adding demarcation on the course surface itself as a visual marker for videos and during any of our passes along the course during the run.

Hopefully that is a little more clear of what I meant if that was unclear.

[bubruins]

mmorgan,

If the balloon idea was implemented, an interesting idea would be to mark a 2-3' circle under where the 1/4mi balloons went and mark it deeper and with more dye than the course lines. That way when a balloon was run over then it would be easy for course workers to find the location to re-attach a new balloon.

[desotoman]

I think there is a lot of room for great ideas, like those that have been thrown out throughout this thread, and I think we should be trying some of these ideas and getting direct racer feedback and analyzing it as a whole land speed racing group for the safety of all competitors and also for the visibility each of us desires when making a pass.

Thoughts anyone?

Mike,

I agree.

Tom G.

I can offer to do 3' or so circles on the course as demarcation for each 1/4 mi. with the biodegradable dyes and do the upkeep during the event for a trial at the event here.  This would be done at no cost to the SCTA etc. for the trial.  If it is on the course itself it is visible to the drivers as they can see the course in front of them.  Having difficulty to see the lines on the edges of the course can be understandable. 

Mike,

Thanks for the offer. You would have to ask the powers to be if it would be OK. But I again thank you for the offer of your time and materials.

Tom G.

[kiwi belly tank]

 Not having markers above ground level is a big problem for lay-down cars when your line of sight is so low. I really wonder how SCTA missed this point.
  Sid.

[gande]

USFRA tried balloons. Apparently helium is a small molecule, the balloons self deflated after a couple of days. Cars passing near but not hitting the balloons made them rip loose from their anchors. We were using Mylar balloons.

Gary

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Sure -- you've probably seen how helium (kid's) balloons go soft a few days after the celebration.  Mylar, as you suggested, is good -- can hold the He for weeks and beyond.