Author Topic: Saving the Salt  (Read 547711 times)

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Offline Koncretekid

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1110 on: January 21, 2016, 08:51:47 AM »
If it can be shown that the depletion of the salt surface was caused by the mining (and I'm pretty sure a good lawyer could convince a judge of that), with or without the permission of the BLM, why wouldn't the mining company(ies) be required to fix it?
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Offline bbarn

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1111 on: January 21, 2016, 08:53:47 AM »
If it can be shown that the depletion of the salt surface was caused by the mining (and I'm pretty sure a good lawyer could convince a judge of that), with or without the permission of the BLM, why wouldn't the mining company(ies) be required to fix it?

I believe it is part of their agreement that they would put back what they took out. That is where the current pumping program came from. If they agreed to do it and they haven't then they are in breech.

It has been a while since I read the full agreement, there are others here that are more versed in the details.
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Offline distributorguy

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1112 on: January 21, 2016, 05:41:49 PM »
When the punishment isn't enforced, or there is no punishment, kids run wild... :cry:
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 
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Offline bbarn

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1113 on: January 22, 2016, 10:16:53 AM »
When the punishment isn't enforced, or there is no punishment, kids run wild... :cry:

Adults will too!
I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.

Offline Ken Yooper

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1114 on: April 23, 2016, 09:25:50 PM »
U. S. Congressman Bill Posey from Rockledge, Fla. drives his street legal 1957 Chevrolet in the Historic North Turn Legends Beach/Road Course Parade at Ponce Inlet, Fla. on February 13, 2016. Congressman Posey restored the body and frame, added roll bars, racing tires and instrumentation so the car can be raced. The Congressman is a former race driver and track promoter.


Folks - This might be a good guy to have on our side in saving the salt. 

Got this off Facebook so accuracy is unknown - anyway I have attempted to paste a pic of the Congressman driving his 57 Chev on the Old Beach Course but it was to no avail - so I have attempted to attach it instead.  Hope it works - if not I will try something else -
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.  If it's not worth doing right then it's probably not worth doing at all.  (Andy Granatelli in Gasoline Alley 1964)

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1115 on: May 21, 2016, 05:24:08 PM »
The link below is a companion piece to Emma Penrod’s recent reports in the Salt Lake City Tribune.

We find the writer to be woefully ignorant of the situation and will be submitting a rebuttal. Interested parties might consider posting comments of their own.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3915182-155/editorial-racers-can-wait-while-salt

Offline fordboy628

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1116 on: May 22, 2016, 10:53:53 AM »
The link below is a companion piece to Emma Penrod’s recent reports in the Salt Lake City Tribune.

We find the writer to be woefully ignorant of the situation and will be submitting a rebuttal. Interested parties might consider posting comments of their own.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3915182-155/editorial-racers-can-wait-while-salt

"Woefully ignorant" is kind.   This is exactly what happened when the "Trout Wars" began with the BLM back in the 80's . . . . . .    Obfuscation and the "demand" for "more study".   This will give whoever, UNIMPEDED access to continue to "extract" the resource, without significant financial return to the taxpayer.   As in the Northwest, it will eventually be made public that the fees paid to the BLM for the "right to extract", do not even cover the administrative costs at the BLM.

Some things NEVER change.

Well, except the amount of salt on the flats . . . . . .
 :cry:
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Offline entropy

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1117 on: May 22, 2016, 11:03:33 AM »
"Like"

The link below is a companion piece to Emma Penrod’s recent reports in the Salt Lake City Tribune.

We find the writer to be woefully ignorant of the situation and will be submitting a rebuttal. Interested parties might consider posting comments of their own.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3915182-155/editorial-racers-can-wait-while-salt

"Woefully ignorant" is kind.   This is exactly what happened when the "Trout Wars" began with the BLM back in the 80's . . . . . .    Obfuscation and the "demand" for "more study".   This will give whoever, UNIMPEDED access to continue to "extract" the resource, without significant financial return to the taxpayer.   As in the Northwest, it will eventually be made public that the fees paid to the BLM for the "right to extract", do not even cover the administrative costs at the BLM.

Some things NEVER change.

Well, except the amount of salt on the flats . . . . . .
 :cry:

Offline robfrey

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1118 on: May 25, 2016, 12:40:24 AM »
Has anybody taken a sample of what is being pumped back onto the salt?  What is the salt to water ratio?  If salt content is not high enough, could the water flush even more salt through the mud and into the aquifer?


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Online Dakin Engineering

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1119 on: May 25, 2016, 07:18:53 AM »
Rob,
  It took months of badgering to get the data from the BLM.
And then, despite being required in the Environmental Assesment, they still won't give numbers before the Mass Ion Balance.

Less than saturated brine means fresh water.
And fresh water runoff is how mining is done.

Sam


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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1120 on: May 25, 2016, 09:54:23 AM »
This will give whoever, UNIMPEDED access to continue to "extract" the resource, without significant financial return to the taxpayer.  

Mark - I gave this one some thought, and I'm becoming a bit less "pollyannish" - in short, my view is changing.

We won't be able to get away from the study - there's too much at stake to make a decision based on what can still be argued on a political level as "non-conclusive" evidence.  Imagine the poor Senator of Congressman going before the budget committee with a proposal to move salt to the salt flats . . . the ridicule would be overwhelming.

But in a study of this magnitude - and we will be stuck with the conclusions of this study for years to come, regardless of the results - in order to gain a solid, credible baseline of evidence, as with a patient in an emergency room, or a problematic engine on a dyno, the affected area needs to first be stabilized.

While the Alliance has in its sites the involvement of the mining company - and let's face it, they're the only ones with anything close to the capacity to return salt from south of I-80 to the racing surface - in order to stabilize the environment, I've come to the conclusion that a moratorium on all mining in the area - and that would include any additional lay-down - is necessary in order to properly validate any conclusions this study is attempting to reach.

There are clearly too many variables occurring with respect to water sources, use of current infrastructure, mineral content, weather and engineered aspects of the environment.  That experts in the field can't really determine what's happening further indicates that any mathematical controls used to validate or produce any conclusions will be suspect, regardless of what they indicate.

If this study is to have any credibility, the pumps will have to be silenced during the period of the study.  
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 12:35:37 PM by Milwaukee Midget »
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline wheelrdealer

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1121 on: May 25, 2016, 03:32:18 PM »
This will give whoever, UNIMPEDED access to continue to "extract" the resource, without significant financial return to the taxpayer.  

Mark - I gave this one some thought, and I'm becoming a bit less "pollyannish" - in short, my view is changing.

We won't be able to get away from the study - there's too much at stake to make a decision based on what can still be argued on a political level as "non-conclusive" evidence.  Imagine the poor Senator of Congressman going before the budget committee with a proposal to move salt to the salt flats . . . the ridicule would be overwhelming.

But in a study of this magnitude - and we will be stuck with the conclusions of this study for years to come, regardless of the results - in order to gain a solid, credible baseline of evidence, as with a patient in an emergency room, or a problematic engine on a dyno, the affected area needs to first be stabilized.

While the Alliance has in its sites the involvement of the mining company - and let's face it, they're the only ones with anything close to the capacity to return salt from south of I-80 to the racing surface - in order to stabilize the environment, I've come to the conclusion that a moratorium on all mining in the area - and that would include any additional lay-down - is necessary in order to properly validate any conclusions this study is attempting to reach.

There are clearly too many variables occurring with respect to water sources, use of current infrastructure, mineral content, weather and engineered aspects of the environment.  That experts in the field can't really determine what's happening further indicates that any mathematical controls used to validate or produce any conclusions will be suspect, regardless of what they indicate.

If this study is to have any credibility, the pumps will have to be silenced during the period of the study.  


You make a good point....but I don't have to like "Silent Pumps"! Seems like if the pumps don't run the salt will be no better than last year.


I was thinking, if 2016 does not happen there will be a large crowd in 2017 rookie orientation as many competition licenses will expire on the 3rd year.

 
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1122 on: May 25, 2016, 03:53:31 PM »
Bill:  And you've touched on the reason that I was so happy to make some runs at the SCTA Mojave Mile last August - to keep the "A" right where it is on my license.

  Go someplace and make some runs - feel the fun of WFO again.  Get your license freshened while you're having fun.[/color][/size]
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Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1123 on: May 25, 2016, 03:53:35 PM »
I was thinking, if 2016 does not happen there will be a large crowd in 2017 rookie orientation as many competition licenses will expire on the 3rd year.
 
BR
[/quote]

Your licenses only drops 1 class for every 3 years of inactivity. No requirement to revisit rookie orientation.
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Offline Bob Drury

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Re: Poor Salt Conditions - all topics merged into one
« Reply #1124 on: May 25, 2016, 03:59:10 PM »
  Dyno, not having a rule book handy, what is the procedure to bump ones license back up?
                                                                  Thanx, Bob
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