Author Topic: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!  (Read 10094 times)

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Offline 38flattie

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4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« on: June 07, 2014, 06:23:03 PM »
Yep, I need your expertise! I'm working my way down the 'bucket list', and this little venture is next! :-D

What 4 cylinder engine, N/A, has the potential for the most HP? The rules state it cannot be over 2500 cc, and must retain the OEM cast heads and block. Also:

CAMS, TIMING COMPONETS, CARBURETORS AND EXHAUST SYSTEMS ARE OPEN. ALL HIGH PERFORMANCE PARTS MUST BE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS A NON-SEALED HIGH PERFORMANCE CLASS.
ALL ENGINES MUST HAVE BEEN PRODUCED IN QUANTITIES OF AT LEAST 5000 UNITS WITHIN A 12 MONTH PERIOD AND BE READILY AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN THE U.S.A

Thank you in advance!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2014, 06:43:16 PM »
Man, by throwing out imports, you've really limited the deal to what is mostly the worst of the bunch.

Probably the Ecotec 2.5.  There were a couple of DOHC setups for the Chrysler 2.2/2.5 back in the day - I think one was a Lotus or Cosworth design cast in Mexico, but I doubt they were made in the quantities necessary.

Hmmmm . . . Cosworth . . . . Vega?  Sure would make setting up the rest of the drivetrain a snap.

Possibly a marine application might be worth looking into, if allowed.

I'm thinking it kind of depends as to how much you want to put into it.

If the FlatCad is any indication, it'll be a fire breather.  :cheers:
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline 38flattie

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2014, 06:48:30 PM »
Chris, imports are allowed:

ANY 2500CC OR UNDER FOUR (4) CYLINDER OEM AUTOMOTIVE MANUFACTURE ENGINE (HONDA, SUBARU, FORD AND GM), MAY BE USED.

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2014, 06:57:27 PM »
Chris, imports are allowed:

ANY 2500CC OR UNDER FOUR (4) CYLINDER OEM AUTOMOTIVE MANUFACTURE ENGINE (HONDA, SUBARU, FORD AND GM), MAY BE USED.



Then the world is your oyster!

The 2 liter out of the S-2000 Honda would be a great starting point, and while it has made its reputation as a turbo motor, I can tell you that the 2.5 Subaru, stock, in normally aspirated form, is a remarkably strong motor with a lot of potential upside.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2014, 09:20:00 PM »
Yep, I need your expertise! I'm working my way down the 'bucket list', and this little venture is next! :-D

What 4 cylinder engine, N/A, has the potential for the most HP? The rules state it cannot be over 2500 cc, and must retain the OEM cast heads and block. Also:

CAMS, TIMING COMPONETS, CARBURETORS AND EXHAUST SYSTEMS ARE OPEN. ALL HIGH PERFORMANCE PARTS MUST BE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS A NON-SEALED HIGH PERFORMANCE CLASS.
ALL ENGINES MUST HAVE BEEN PRODUCED IN QUANTITIES OF AT LEAST 5000 UNITS WITHIN A 12 MONTH PERIOD AND BE READILY AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN THE U.S.A

Thank you in advance!

I love my 2.0 Ecotec LNF. I have a pretty mild turbo build in my HHR that makes 300 hp at the wheels (and that will hopefully be making an appearance at Loring in late August and Ohio in September), but the guys at ZZ Performance in Grand Rapids have dynoed their 2.0 at 898 whp before failure. My LNF has the stronger Gen II Ecotec block, with forged crank and rods and cast pistons, and it's a pretty stout little motor. I'm actually using the 2.4 heads that were on my stock HHR motor (which I ran at Loring and Wilmington last year)--I stepped down to the 2.0 because the stock 2.4 block would have been iffy with the turbo on there. Pretty good aftermarket for parts, too...
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1 mile)     143.313
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1.5 mile)  148.321
LTA   F/PRO Record (1 mile)         114.668

Offline maguromic

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2014, 10:37:37 PM »
The Subaru is a good engine, but one of the ports has a dog leg and is a pain to get the flow to work properly. I was going to use Pete Ardema's head he adapted for the Model A Ford with a hairdryer to compensate for the flow issue in a hill climb race till they banned turbos from the hill climb.  Why beat your self when there are better engines to start with.

If it was me I would look at the Honda and talk to Miriam or Doug about the engines.  They have the Hondata engine in Don's liner and Don mentioned the engine was making somewhere in the 800 hp range with the hairdryer.  Tony 
“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2014, 11:21:08 PM »
Tony's correct - as usual.  Look for lots of valves and straight ports.  Most of the modern 4s can take a lot of bottom end punishment, but normally aspirated, it's going to be all about flow.

Do you have Harold Bettes' book?

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Airflow-HP1537-Practical-Performance/dp/1557885370

Good primmer, that one.

Buddy - is this a Bonneville project?
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2014, 11:31:36 PM »
You're a little shy on information & application there Buddy, Who is at the top of the heap in this racing & what are they running? :? :?
  Sid.

Offline JR529

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2014, 11:55:07 PM »
Looks like somebody is going SCORE Class 5 racing  :cheers:

amirite?

Offline 38flattie

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 11:57:57 PM »
Thanks guys!

I've been researching the Honda FC22C1 engine, and i think it shows great promise.

Sid, the rules changed this year, allowing more types of engines in the class, so it's hard to tell at this point what the 'winners' will run!

Looks like somebody is going SCORE Class 5 racing  :cheers:

amirite?

Yes, you are right! :-D
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline Speed Limit 1000

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 07:10:04 AM »
Any NHRA prostock motors that small? Might be a good place to look.
John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20

Jessechop

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 08:16:12 AM »
Nissans SR20 is a great platform espically with the "VE" head. Pretty much Nissans version of Hondas Vtec. Big aftermarket support too

Offline 38flattie

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4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 01:24:08 PM »
Thanks guys! I'm still looking, but the Honda looks like a good base,with 240 HP

This is for the Baja 1000 and 500, so keeping things intact will be a challenge.

We'll try and identify week spots, strengthen them, then go try and break things, and then fix them.

This is  Danny's build, one of FlatCad's drivers. I'm just a driver on this venture, and offered to do the engine and tranny for the car.
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2014, 05:00:36 PM »
You might want to look at the dirt midget world. Thats some well proven $hit with under head or over head cam options & you might even get a deal on a couple bullet's ready to load. I guess you'll have to change it to gas but that's no biggie!
  Sid.

Offline 38flattie

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Re: 4 Cylinder Experts Needed!
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2014, 07:18:57 PM »
Thanks Sid- I'll check it out!
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c