Dirty laundry....

[tortoise]

JH-

First, my best wishes for your full recovery.
Second, for those of us who would like to learn from this, can you tell us about your acknowledged mistake? 

[JR529]

We all know the inspectors look the other way at some cars with obivious rule infractions and get the microscope out for others.

I dont "know" this at all. I don't know of any cars with obvious safety issues that are allowed to race. Maybe you are referring to class legality issues? if that's the case then inspectors don't check for that, only impound does. you can be class illegal and hot lap at Bonneville and nobody would/should care. That only matters when you want to certify a record.

Another aspect should be discussed. What do the rules say about or what is the process whan an Inspector or three make a mistake ? Do you ban them for 5 years, take away their inspection authority, put them up in front of the the board to be chastized. 

If you think the SCTA Inspector, therefor the SCTA itself, should be responsible for an unsafe vehicle then the smartest thing the SCTA could do when a competitor presents an unsafe vehicle, and the SCTA believes that competitor will continue to present unsafe vehicles, would be to ban that competitor for life. Because I guarantee you if I were the SCTA and was responsible for someone elses car then I would not let anyone race anything that wasn't 100%, absolutely, gold plated, FEA analyzed, professional engineer certified, crash tested, PERFECT. I would NEVER let a person weld their own chassis. Never let anyone design their own ANYTHING. Is that what you want?

If an inspector isnt doing his/her job then they need to move on, or be moved on, but it's the entrants responsibility to make a safe car. If you figure you are just going to throw some crap together and see it you can talk it through tech then you are in for a bad time and it cant be blamed on the tech inspector.

BTW, none of the above is directed at Hotnuts, I don't know what inspection issues he is talking about, it is a response to jh333's post.

[Speed Limit 1000]

jhNUTS,

Thank YOU for having the BALLS to start this thread. People think because they have $$$$$$ or can sue the crap out of someone ect. the can Land Speed RACE.

The most importation thing my daddy ever taught me was "never argue with your mother". I if you do you should know "when it is going to happen again'". "That will be the next word out of your mouth after the last thing she told you". 


JN, You are not alone. We all at LR.com can and will support you.

Just look back starting a day or two how many RACERS from around the world have been posting GOOD info. that will save SOMEONES LIFE. For every person that has posted(SSS could tell you the number of people that have read this in the last three days).

To all my racing family PLEASE BE SAFE

JNuts, most of us here understand and feel your pain... read the whole thread again and don't ask for it to be erased... yes you may have Fiated up... none of us are privy to how bad the SCTA thinks it was... but....
I know the mistakes I made, they didn't cause my accident and neither did yours.  I will never race a car again without knowing the things I didn't investigate on our car... I will make changes in sequences, not physical changes in equipment sequences... I will never assume that a car that is going straight and requiring little driver input will keep doing that. 
Every run is an opportunity to crash or not... and everyone needs to think of it that way.
We took a cautious approach to racing the liner because we didn't build it from scratch.  We made changes every year to improve how it drove and had it to the point that Jon was going to jump in and drive the next pass.  So just remember any pass can go to Subaru.
Safety is paramount, the rulebook is trying to keep you safe, not inconvenience you, just because a car that has never displayed bad behavior does not mean under some conditions it wont. 
I agree with Sparky... open some dialog with the SCTA, discuss your issue as calmly as you can... go back to work on your new car, I'll bet you will get to race when it is ready.
Again glad you are back to your normal   

[Finallygotit]

That would be 1790 views as of this posting.  

[Seldom Seen Slim]

JR 529 said "...you can be class illegal and hot lap at Bonneville and nobody would/should care. That only matters when you want to certify a record."

Boy, I guess i should be racing cars and not bikes.  Last year I was in inspection with my ZX12 motorcycle that was plumbed for running nitrous.  There wasn't a bottle attached - and neither was the plumbing complete enough to let me spray if I put on said bottle.  A solenoid in the line was quire obviously missing.  I was planing to register the bike in a gas class - just because that was what I figured I'd do.  No particular reason, and no intention or hope of making it into impound in any way, shape, or form no matter what class I ran in.  And so I told the inspectors - that I wasn't going to take the bike to impound no matter what - when I was informed that I wouldn't be allowed to get an "inspected" sticker when the bike had and of the nitrous plumbing on it -- lines, bottle, wiring.  I could run if I chose -- but only if I ran in fuel class.

That told me that at least some inspectors DO check for class legality.  It wasn't just them letting me know that I wouldn't make it through impound if I tried it.  I wouldn't be allowed to race if I registered as a gas bike.

Dang, I shoulda chosen cars.

[Stan Back]

Inspectors are not told to inspect for class compliance -- but a lot of them know much about that, above what they need to know about their "safety" inspection.

I think it's a good thing that an inspector would advise a competitor about class compliance.  We spend all year getting ready for the premier event, and can possibly qualify for a record, and even back it up -- and have our effort voided. 

If I was competing in a certain class and an inspector called it to my attention that I wasn't in compliance (not his job), I'd think (after thinking it over) he was doing me a favor.

Stan
(I guess I'm becoming the Company Man)

[JR529]

JR 529 said "...you can be class illegal and hot lap at Bonneville and nobody would/should care. That only matters when you want to certify a record."

Boy, I guess i should be racing cars and not bikes.  Last year I was in inspection with my ZX12 motorcycle that was plumbed for running nitrous.  There wasn't a bottle attached - and neither was the plumbing complete enough to let me spray if I put on said bottle.  A solenoid in the line was quire obviously missing.  I was planing to register the bike in a gas class - just because that was what I figured I'd do.  No particular reason, and no intention or hope of making it into impound in any way, shape, or form no matter what class I ran in.  And so I told the inspectors - that I wasn't going to take the bike to impound no matter what - when I was informed that I wouldn't be allowed to get an "inspected" sticker when the bike had and of the nitrous plumbing on it -- lines, bottle, wiring.  I could run if I chose -- but only if I ran in fuel class.

That told me that at least some inspectors DO check for class legality.  It wasn't just them letting me know that I wouldn't make it through impound if I tried it.  I wouldn't be allowed to race if I registered as a gas bike.

Dang, I shoulda chosen cars.

Slim, Cars are always the better option. especially roadsters, you know that by now.

The issue I was addressing in my post was whether "cars with obvious rule infractions" are allowed to run and I said i don't believe so, but allowed that maybe he was referring to class certification issues rather than safety issues and that that could, and does, happen all the time. especially on the car side.

(I guess I'm becoming the Company Man)

Yeah Stan, whats up? you are usually the one shooting the flaming arrows. You feelin OK?

[Koncretekid]

I was a d- for airing this out. I apologize to all.

It doesnt matter if everything was correct in the investigation, the bigger picture is that there WERE things incorrect. If one thing was wrong it was still wrong. That is enough for me and it was my fault.

Slim....

If you could make this whole thread go away.....

I'll go hide my head for a while.

~JH

JH,

I feel your pain.  These forums are great, but putting our thoughts on them in anger usually provokes regret because we think we are just talking to our good friends and we find out that there are just as many if not more people out there that just want to feed us to the wolves!

"Don't try to fight city hall", " he who has the gold rules", "the old boys club makes the rules", " don't argue with your mother" are all good clichés for your experience.  I've been there and done that to no avail.  Got sh*t upon just like you for trying to keep our Vintage TT on track in N.S. when the "good old boys" club (which were really the young modern bike racers) wanted to dispose of it and succeeded!

Luckily, man in general has a short memory, and all will be forgotten in time ("time heals all wounds and wounds all heels".)  My advice is to stay low under the radar, start planning your next car, build it and get back on the horse that threw you.  We (those who really care) will support you 100%

Tom

[wobblywalrus]

Glad to see you are getting well and are feisty again.  My feelings are "this could happen to me!"  Egad.

[Stainless1]

Slim, bike inspectors are different than car inspectors... look at the bike rules... they say you cannot have N20 equipment on a bike that runs gas class.... want to guess why  
too easy to put on and take off.  While not a safety thing you might notice that the bike guys are the same in impound and inspection... not necessarily so for the cars...

[jl222]

You mean like BOOTLICKER ? ECT...ECT 

    JL222  LOL   YEP that is what I am a BOOTLICKER  but there are others who just might disagree with you!


lol   sorta like the old Jim Croche:  sp  song:
 about spiten into the wind and tugging on superman's cape 

This guy isn't interested in anything but trying to suck us in on his
"woe is me" BS and try to put the SCTA in a bad light!!

    or he has NO IDEA of how things get done in the real world ---what he has done and is doing is only going to cause more grief----for himself and for other racers ----ie the new rule   

In todays POLITICAL climate this type of stuff could easily lead to none of us getting to race on "DRY LAKES"  wherever they may be

 Sparky your Pharisee quote implied that JH should lick some boots, not that you do. But your actions don't match your Jefferson quote.

   If you worried about standing up to the SCTA you certainly will not stand up to a corrupt Govn.

   Looking up Pharisee, one source said Jesus fought them ''tooth and nail''

                       JL222                          

[jh333]

To JR529 , I suggest you fully read or reread my post.

No where does the word safe, safer, safest, safety or any other word that might be used instead of safe show up in any of my writings. I can put words in my mouth but please don't you try to.

[Speed Limit 1000]

  Thanks to JHotnuts this could save someones life

[SPARKY]

JL  you may imply what you wish---my point was if you are interested---know where you stand BEFORE you get to the BOARD ruling on your apeal case---

FIVE years would most likely put me out of  racing at my age. It is a lot more important to me to get to run by finding out what the issues are,  than to just pull some ones chain in some self righteous moment, over my interpretation of the rule book.

At the rate JH is going he will do all five and have a huge problem getting through tech unless he repairs some bridges and builds a D--M good car.

 My motivation was and is ---for HIM to increase is odds of getting on the salt earlier.  I see nothing he has posted so far that would help his efforts of trying to get back to the salt and race sooner than the 5 years.  

Also for ALL to understand that our actions can lead to rules like "The JH Rule"

I do not know other that hearsay what happened---but it must have been pretty dang bad for him to not tell us what he did and for an all encompassing catch all rule to make it into the rule book!  This "JH Rule" should scare us all!!!!

[gkabbt]

Sparky Bill.....VERY good post!!!!

I have even heard the hearsay of what happened here in Wilmington and why the JH rule was created!

Gregg