Author Topic: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?  (Read 5061 times)

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Offline rgn

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Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« on: May 07, 2014, 01:59:38 AM »
Anyone had experience with something like this?  I'm figuring that a 100 hp hit is not going to be beneficial unless it is moderated over time.  Does anyone have advice regarding a controller that is reliable and programmable for use on a 1000 cc bike, probably running avgas.  Over what sort of interval from beginning to end?  My gut says 9-10 seconds, as the slip that the salt offers is a damper of sorts?  Any input would be much appreciated.  thanks,
Ralph.

Offline Frenchinjection

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 03:30:45 AM »
The Schnitz controller can have ramps to slowly increase Nitrous and also have a delay from start time to full amount but the big problem is they are designed for Drag racing where it's all over and done in 7 seconds.  I have used them with good results, 6.99 in the 1/4 so they are useable however on the salt we have a mile just to get to the first timing light.  To make one of these work you need to choose when you want the nitrous to start up the ramps.  The controllers only have max 10 second ramps so you need to think if this is long enough to introduce the  power to avoid wheel spin.  The controllers also pull timing out as they introduce nitrous but again only over a max of 10 sec.  I would suggest only arming it in top gear so the torque does not spin the wheel and the 10 sec restriction will not be an issue.

Offline RansomT

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 06:24:51 AM »
Check out the Daytona Sensors progressive controllers, however like the Schnitz they will only progress over 10 seconds.  But with the Daytona you can "time" fix percentage per gear, e.g. You can spray 30% in 5th without increasing over time, all of its controll are via USB port.

Something else to be aware of, some (maybe most) controllers will time out in 30 seconds even when they are spraying.  Daytona new software goes up to 65 seconds.

Offline sabat

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2014, 09:20:47 AM »
Another consideration is the precision of the solenoids - often the actual flow rate exceeds the "instructed" rate by a big margin. You program 30%, but you end up with 60%.  This is true with NX or NOS solenoids, but maybe the newer $$ solenoids are more precise. -Dean

Offline Duramax

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2014, 09:57:09 AM »
I've never sprayed LSR, but:

We've always done in it in drag racing with just 2 or three stages.  Perhaps a baby shot for getting the charger to light if the air is thin, then a second shot on window switch+throttle WOT switch+boost switch, then a third stage that is dead man.

The first shot does not operate except to stage, and never again.  The second shot is a meager shot that is automatic and dies with the throttle.  The third shot is the big-boy.

Since you're not staging, just 2 shots.  If your goal is a 100 shot, you have an automatic 30 shot that only comes on at XXXX rpm IF WOT and IF boost is present.  Then a 70 shot that has an additional manual switch.  It can never come on unless the 30 shot is active.

Offline RansomT

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 10:44:04 AM »
Another consideration is the precision of the solenoids - often the actual flow rate exceeds the "instructed" rate by a big margin. You program 30%, but you end up with 60%.  This is true with NX or NOS solenoids, but maybe the newer $$ solenoids are more precise. -Dean

Yes, the WON solenoids seem to be more accurate.  They also can handle a much higher Hz rate.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 11:39:11 PM »
Some of the Schnitz controllers can be modified by them for longer sprays.  Call them and ask.  You might also contact the Wizards of Nitrous and see if their controllers spray without a cutoff time.
Be sure to us large enough N20 solenoids that they don't freeze open.  And a Murphy that won't let N20 spray unless you have fuel pressure in that spray line.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline rgn

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 12:06:40 AM »
Thanks for the replies.  The whole nitrous circus reminds me too much of two-strokes!

I've downloaded the Daytona manual, and it is an interesting read.  For me the more protections for the engine that are offered, the more attractive the unit.

It will be learning curb governed by the scale of economy this year, I regret I never studied as an electronic engineer.  :roll:

Cheers,

PS: thanks Stainless, advice duly noted.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 12:09:00 AM by rgn »

Offline RacerX9623

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 07:40:54 AM »
The Max extream controller from Wizards of Nitrous is very good and the pulsoids are far superior to solenoids.
I am making 100% more power with WON and have not had an engine failure since switching to WON.
trying to go 200 KPH with a 250cc four stroke.

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 09:07:42 AM »
A workaround that we came up with on the Schnitz unit (10 second spray followed by ten seconds to reset) was to use the nitrous for a short burst -- say 5 -7 seconds -- earlier in the run, then let off the button and wait for the reset to time out, and then -- by now in top gear -- hit it again and go.  Even if we were in the last mile by then it would give us a quick last mile and - - and it worked, witness my red hat.  It takes a bit of mental doing though, to remember to not hit the button for the second time until fully 10 seconds have elapsed.  Too soon and you won't get the spray, too late and well, you're too late.  You get to go through the exit trap at nice high speed, though. :roll:
Jon E. Wennerberg
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Offline joea

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 11:30:25 AM »
Yes with Schmitz controller it simply was not desirable for us to shut off nitrous power during the nitrous infusion...loose power speed and bike attitude..to wait for a controller to time out to get it going again...

But we were not trying to go 200 from an engine already very near 200 ...

We just talked to programmer at Schmitz and he would reflash the chip in controller for whatever parameter you wanted custom..we had ramps up to 60 seconds....

Offline rgn

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Re: Wet nitrous ramp up controllers?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 07:51:12 PM »
The Max extream controller from Wizards of Nitrous is very good and the pulsoids are far superior to solenoids.

This looks like a very nice system.  I'm wondering if there are any real world benefits in using the (more expensive) 50 hz controller?  I'm going to need a map that has a duration of  45-60 seconds, I'm glad to hear you can request custom remapping of the controllers duty cycle.  I wouldn't have even considered this so thanks for the heads up  :cheers: