Gyroscope

[fastlammy]

Has any one used gyroscope technology in a 2 wheel application to assist with stability? was mainly looking at it for a stream liner application to help make the bike as compact as possible, as I've noticed that you are limited really to how much you can lay the rider down with out affecting the riders ability to steer the bike, especially at lower speeds.   

[RidgeRunner]

     Concept was there once but never made it to trial for various reasons: http://www.gyronautx1.com/.

      If the rider lays too flat the helmet chin bar hits the chest and forward vision starts to become a problem.  Cal Rayborn had exceptional talent, was able to control Dennis Manning's HD liner using the side windows while laying on his back.

     Finding room for the gyro and the power required to keep it[them] spinning could prove tough given how closely packed most liners are today.

     Do things exactly like everyone else has and, conditions being equal, you will go exactly as fast as everyone else has.  Innovation is what keeps LSR so interesting.  Breakthroughs in tech happen every day, who knows when something will come along that could change the "accepted" combinations.  Keep thinking and go for it!

     Ed

[fastlammy]

thanks for your reply, yeah i was amazed looking at photos how small and difficult if must have been to pilot.   

[DaveL]

G'day fastlammy, many years ago I looked into making a gyroscope to help balance a streamlined motorcycle. The system is only as good as the sensors and actuators that control it. From memory it will work fine if it is free to hunt around the vertical, the problem was when you have a continuous force from one side (as in a crosswind). It was not the simple solution I was looking for so I gave up on it. Dave. 

[fastlammy]

Hi thanks do you think with the progresses in technology these days, it would be more viable?

[Freud]

Les Davenport made one for the Treit/Davenport streamliner car.

Since the car has not run I can't report on it yet.

I doubt that it will be used in the initial stages of testing.

FREUD

[DaveL]

Hi thanks do you think with the progresses in technology these days, it would be more viable?

Certainly would, all it takes is development time and money. My ideas had crude mechanical sensors. Developed to the utmost it would remove the skill required of riding a streamlined motorcycle. The rider would no longer need to balance the machine. Not really in the spirit of motorcycling in my opinion. Google 'gyro balanced trains' for some early examples.

[fastlammy]

after looking at some home made items such as DIY segways, and other 2 wheeled balancing projects, i thought it looking like a good option the help reduce the bike footprint though the air, as well as adding to safety hopefully.

[Dean Los Angeles]

It sounds like we are discussing two very different things.
What Les Davenport designed is a gyroscope that acts like a spinning top. These have been around for centuries.

There are two ways they can operate

The picture looks like a reaction wheel and is sometimes operated as (and referred to as) a momentum wheel, by operating a flywheel at a constant (or near-constant) rotation speed, in order to imbue a satellite streamliner with a large amount of stored angular momentum. Simply a large mass spinning on a fixed bearing.

The other possibility is to suspend the rotating weight in a single axis gimbal, a Control Moment Gyroscope. The most effective CMGs include only a single gimbal. When the gimbal of such a CMG rotates, the change in direction of the rotor's angular momentum represents a torque that reacts onto the body to which the CMG is mounted, e.g. a spacecraft streamliner. The International Space Station has 4.

The Segway contains neither. It has a type of gyroscope that uses an inexpensive vibrating structure gyroscope manufactured with MEMS (micro-electro-mechanical) technology have become widely available. Aircraft gyroscopes used to cost thousands of dollars. Thanks to the Iphone the cost of MEMS gyros has become dirt cheap. You can buy a three axis gyro for $25. Better yet, you can buy a 3-axis accelerometer, 3-axis gyroscope, and 3-axis magnetometer for $30. About half the size of a credit card.

My $600 quadcopter has one. The software allows it to hover hands-off. Better yet, I can program a route on Google Earth and it will take off, accurately fly the route out of range of the transmitter, and return and land. Substitute an IED for the camera and you can see why everyone is worried about drones!

[manta22]

I think this is a case of apples vs. oranges.

Most systems use a small gyro to simply measure angular acceleration for control & stability by a servo system. A big, heavy spinning gyro bolted solidly to the chassis can maintain the vehicle in an upright position but when it tries to turn over, the vehicle is steered left or right, depending on which way it is spinning. It is called gyroscopic precession. I would not like to ride something like that!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[DaveL]

The system I had in mind used lean angle sensors controlling actuators which rotated CMG type gyros. Gyroscopic precession then counteracted the initial lean angle. Properly sorted it would hold the vehicle rock solid upright. However, if something went wrong you'd have the mother of all bike wrecks. 

[manta22]

You'll need powerful, very fast actuators to do that, though.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

[Sumner]

... Properly sorted it would hold the vehicle rock solid upright....

Not sure that would always be desired.....cross winds, turning

Sum