Author Topic: Last of the "COPO" style cars?  (Read 4574 times)

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Offline Duramax

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Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« on: May 05, 2014, 08:15:29 PM »
Hopefully in a couple of weeks Chevrolet will start building my dream factory hot rod.

It's supposed to be assembled the week of 5/19 (according to GM, but I'm not holding my breath).

It is a lowly Camaro that has been tweaked, called the 2014 Z/28.

It's powered by a naturally-aspirated, hand-built 427ci pushrod V8 with ported heads, dry sump, and titanium rods.

True MANual stick shift gearbox and normal HD single disc clutch.

No air conditioning.  No "stereo" (one speaker is required by law for the seatbelt chime).

No convertible or T-tops.

While the law dictates you must have digital baby-sitters now, you can turn them all off and drive it like it was meant to be driven.

It has 2 doors and 4 seats.  No sound deadening material.  The trunk is bare metal as is the hood inner.

Will they ever get away with it again?  I don't know.  But I can't wait to see what it can do.

Historical note.  There never was an "official" street Camaro with more than 396 ci badging until now.  GM big wigs said nothing over 400ci in the Camaro, so the 396 was the largest option.  Engineers simply rebadged their 402 ci big block with 396 stickers so they could use it.  Sneaky dealers would order a 396 Camaro, and put the crate 427 in it as a huge $$$ option.  REALLY sneaky dealers snuck around GM management by ordering a limited number of cars via the fleet sales system, or Central Office Purchase Order, using the 427 engine designator.  But even the meanest stock COPO ZL1 427 aluminum V8 is not as potent as what GM has stuffed under the hood today.

There WERE some so-called COPO Camaros recently sold for drag racing only that are insanely fast.  Here's a 2012 edition, pretty close to "as delivered"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91mgz6b7AU.  However, they have no VIN number, only a Part Number.  It's not considered a car, it's consider a performance part, and was never legal for street use.

The 2014 Z/28 car and 427 engine however are street legal and smog legal, where the 427 and chassis in the 2012 COPO is not.  


« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 08:27:01 PM by Duramax »

Offline manta22

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 08:38:33 PM »
That sounds a lot like my old '65 GTO-- no radio, no power nuttin' , every performance option in the Pontiac book. Hoo ha!

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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 09:26:34 PM »
Well, here you are again.  We've been wondering where you were.  Haven't been a part of our scene for a few years, and now you're back.  Selling some tires in the wrong category and getting good results -- hope you give Jon some bucks.  Criticizing the SCTA on how you got screwed -- are you coming back?  Hope you find a club to your liking.  Glad you're getting a new Camaro -- we really want to hear about it.  And what you think is a pretty car.  We've missed those dancing fingers.
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Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 10:35:18 PM »
What does "COPO" mean?

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 12:12:06 AM »
... -- are you coming back?...
I'd have to guess that he's not- since he posted this in the 'NON LSR' forum.
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Offline salt27

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 12:20:09 AM »
What does "COPO" mean?

"Central Office Purchase Order"

Offline Duramax

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 01:06:20 AM »
Well, here you are again.  We've been wondering where you were.  Haven't been a part of our scene for a few years, and now you're back.  Selling some tires in the wrong category and getting good results -- hope you give Jon some bucks.  Criticizing the SCTA on how you got screwed -- are you coming back?  Hope you find a club to your liking.  Glad you're getting a new Camaro -- we really want to hear about it.  And what you think is a pretty car.  We've missed those dancing fingers.

Love and kisses to you too Jim.  Remember to keep both eyes open when navigating and you'll do just fine@!

Did you ever figure out where the throttle return springs go on a diesel yet?  Keep at it! The hardest part is to find the carburator or throttle body, and once you got that licked, you're there.  :D


Offline floydjer

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 10:59:44 AM »
What does "COPO" mean?
" cosmeticly out-dated/ propeller optioned" :cheers:
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Offline Duramax

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 11:40:00 AM »
It's one of those terms that has changed over the years.  The 2012/2013 COPO cars MIGHT have had a fleet sales path, but I doubt it, due to the lack of a VIN#.  GM brass authorized their construction, and many/most of the parts are not GM.  It even runs a Powerglide.
The original COPO's ended up in hardcore NHRA race teams, but the new ones mostly ended up in private collections.

It's sad that modern race versions of American cars are mostly being snapped up by collectors.  On the Z/28, the Serial Number #1 sold for $650,000, and Serial Number #2 sold for $500,000 at auction, with proceeds going to charity.  SN 3&4 are being kept for the GM Museum, and a private racer just took delivery of #5 yesterday in Virginia.  They aren't being shipped by rail because they are too wide and low.  They come in an enclosed trailer that hold 11 units.

I don't even have a VIN# yet, even though I ordered on Day One the allocations were issued.  They are only making 500 units for 2014 (the engines and chassis take a long time to build, estimates that only 9 cars per day getting completed).

What is laughable is that few if any late model cars become collectable.  The most notable is the Ford GT, which at FIRST was collectible but things might change.  Most sold for $50k-$100k over sticker price, yet you can find them at $40k over sticker in cherry condition from collectors pretty easy now.

The ZR-1 Corvette was limited, historically significant (held the 24hr world record for a long time at 199mph average speed?), and started the modern HP war.  They are cheap now.

The 2000 Cobra R (they didn't make Cobras in 2000 except the R, and only 300 were built) aren't collectable, yet historically significant due to race victories.

Dittos for the Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca (full race, no backseats, low production).

Car collectors are the bane of the enthusiast.  They drive the prices up, and availability down, yet they aren't collectable per se.

Luckily, I have friends in GM and got an allocation unit, or a collector would have snapped it up.  I'm going to race it, and drive it on the street, or there would no sense in buying one.  They AREN'T going to increase in value, because the HP wars are not over yet.

Dodge Jay Leno was the first non-GM employee to drive the Z/28, and it was the one used for the introduction at the Autoshow (NY?), not a production car.


EDIT - Minor correction/clarification.  The LS7 427 engine is a mouse motor, SBC.  It was designed for the C5.R LeMans/ALMS endurance race cars.  GM stopped production of the BBC for all but marine and crate engines many years ago.  Last BBC's were put into pickups, Suburbans, and Kodiaks (RIP) and then shut down.

You CAN get A/C and a Stereo as an option in the Z/28; the only option available.  Only 8% of the production so far is A/C & Stereo Delete.  Which makes me think few are going to be raced.




« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:23:44 PM by Duramax »

Offline floydjer

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2014, 01:21:24 PM »
that sort of reminds me of the `69 ZL-1 camaro that sat on the lot at Berger Chev. in G.R...For two years.
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Offline Duramax

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2014, 02:29:39 PM »
that sort of reminds me of the `69 ZL-1 camaro that sat on the lot at Berger Chev. in G.R...For two years.

Few people knew they what they were, or how much that engine itself cost to make.  It was "badged" at 435HP and over doubled the price of the car.  When NHRA officials found that the 435HP rating was deliberately taken at 1500 rpm under the peak HP RPM, they reclassified the cars.  True 60's peak gross HP was about 550HP according the racers.

EDIT - This was not the last time GM was to heavily under-rate one of their engines.  The LS1 all-alum V8 first came out in the C5 Corvette.  It was badged at 345HP.  The Camaro team wanted to use that engine in the 1998 Camaro (Scott Settlemire?), but the Corvette team got pissed and had more rank in the corp.  So they did indeed put the LS1 Corvette engine in the '98 Camaro and Firebird, but badged it at 305HP by reporting the peak HP at a lower RPM.  But the dynos told the truth.  The Camaro made slightly more HP due to the rear trans and IRS design of the Vette.  It was not unusual to see Camaros and Firebirds that had over 310 horsepower at the rear tires, not the crankshaft.  This pissed off the Ford boys, since their 310HP Mustang only pushed about 260rwhp in 1999.  They assumed Ford duped them, but it was Chevy that did.

However, the new SAE spec that was recently released is about 30% lower than the 60's calculations.  If the modern base LS7 427ci was rated by the 60's formula, it would be about 650HP in smog trim.  Those 2002 COPO's would be 750HP. Is that wishful thinking?  Well the LS7 in a 2006 Corvette Z06, bone stock, would run high 10 second ET's through the cats in 29mpg Highway trim, and peak at 202mph.  No 60's stock LS7 car ever dreamed of those kind of numbers.  For reference, when I was running a dyno day circa 2001? an OEM well-tuned 426 Hemi Charger with headers dyno'd 345rwhp.

The Z/28 ended production in 2002.  I had ordered a 1LE (race) version stripper with all the goodies in early 2002, and put a large deposit on it.  It would have been the last of that generation's race models.  Somehow, it got "lost" between Michigan and California, and they refunded our money, and we picked up a 2002 Z06 instead for competition.  My guess is somebody important wanted it.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 02:50:34 PM by Duramax »

Offline 38flattie

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2014, 03:20:02 PM »
"No 60's stock LS7 car ever dreamed of those kind of numbers."

Of course not, since there is no such animal as a 60's stock LS7 car. 454 LS-7 engines were only sold as crate engines.
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 03:30:03 PM »
True on GM duping folks regarding power output.  Similar story for the GNX Regals, and even within the corporate heirarchy.

Big Wigs - "Transmission only handles 200 hp."

Buick Engineers - "That's all it's putting out".

 :wink:





« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 03:52:08 PM by Milwaukee Midget »
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Offline Duramax

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 04:13:53 PM »
"No 60's stock LS7 car ever dreamed of those kind of numbers."

Of course not, since there is no such animal as a 60's stock LS7 car. 454 LS-7 engines were only sold as crate engines.

DOH!!!  My bad.  The biggest thing that pss's me off about Chevrolet Marketing is their constant reuse of designations.  It confuses the snot out of me.

Today, the ZL1 option is a 6.2L supercharged 580HP version of the LSA engine (LSA is the 2009 CTS-V Caddy engine).

The LS7 today is the 7.0L (427) NA 505HP Corvette engine.

I think they reused LT1 3 different times, the original, the early 4th gen Fbody (1993-1997), and the C7 Corvette.  All different small blocks.

They are worse than Hollywood.  Constantly doing "remakes".

Offline saltwheels262

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Re: Last of the "COPO" style cars?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2014, 09:14:25 PM »
What does "COPO" mean?

"Central Office Purchase Order"

I always thought the P was for production.
as always, could be wrong.
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