On the REALLY high speed runs why don't the tires explode?

[Dynoroom]

Here's my thoughts to anyone contemplating building a high speed vehicle......

Get your wheels and tires first, then build your car around them. You can paint yourself into a corner doing it any other way.
No one is likely going to build tires for your one off concept in today's world.

So double j, some of the basic sizes of high speed tires are as follows:

Goodyear 17", 21", 23", 25", 28", 30"

M/T 24", 26", 30"

Dunlop 30", 32"

These are not all the sizes or manufactures but some of the basic ones. They all have different load ratings & widths too. Keep in mind just because it's listed in the catalog does not mean they have them. Also know that wheel sizes (18") can be hard to get for certain tires.

JMPOV     

 

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Doug/BuickGuy has a pdf from the M/T catalog and tried to post it, but since neither he nor I know how to get it on this Forum -- please let us know if you can do it.  We'll get it to you and then we'll all be able to see the tires they've got available.

[tortoise]

they have a catalouge? though i highly doubt it has the size i'm looking for.

Yeah, I'd like the 12" tall ones rated 600 mph, to go with my legless driver.

[Dynoroom]

This is old news but it has sizing.

Slim, if you'd like to send me the pdf I will see if I can post it.


Stow, OH - Mickey Thompson Tires is pleased to announce that we will be again producing tires for Land Speed Racing in 2008!

Mickey Thompson’s V.P. of Sales Ken Warner stated, “Mickey Thompson enjoyed every aspect of racing at the famed Bonneville Salt Flats, and he would be very pleased that our company can participate by supplying tires again in 2008”.


24.5X7.50-16 priced @ $720.00 each
26.5X9.0-18 priced @ $740.00 each
30.0X9.0-18 priced @ $760.00 each

In order to meet our production schedule and ensure all customers receive their tires before Bonneville, Mickey Thompson Tires has issued an order cut-off date of April 15th 2008. Tire production will be based on orders received by April 15th.

Two Mickey Thompson Tires Motorsports representatives will be happy to assist you with the required release forms, technical questions and orders:

Aaron Smith  330-928-9092 ext 3154  asmith@mickeythompsontires.com

Tom Kundrik 330-928-9092 ext 3114  tkundrik@mickeythompsontires.com


Here's a link to the Goodyear LSR tire specs. Go all the way to the bottom of the page.

http://www.racegoodyear.com/tires/pdf/drag.pdf

[Sumner]

I found these...



Click for larger view.... http://1fatgmc.com/car/car-other-1/MickyT-1.jpg

... in their catalog and most can be used for land speed but no speed rating.  I couldn't find the really high speed tires Doug ordered.  I'd like a link,

Sum

[Sumner]

....Get your wheels and tires first, then build your car around them. You can paint yourself into a corner doing it any other way....

Excellent advice and buy more than you need, even though they are expensive, for the years they don't make them and when you have a problem with one (it will happen  )

Store them properly off the car when not running the rest of the year and put junkers on while the car is stored, worked on and going to and from the salt on the trailer.  I keep mine in double/triple trash bags in a dark room with moderate temperatures.

Sum

[cdoublejj]

Here's my thoughts to anyone contemplating building a high speed vehicle......

Get your wheels and tires first, then build your car around them. You can paint yourself into a corner doing it any other way.
No one is likely going to build tires for your one off concept in today's world.

So double j, some of the basic sizes of high speed tires are as follows:

Goodyear 17", 21", 23", 25", 28", 30"

M/T 24", 26", 30"

Dunlop 30", 32"

These are not all the sizes or manufactures but some of the basic ones. They all have different load ratings & widths too. Keep in mind just because it's listed in the catalog does not mean they have them. Also know that wheel sizes (18") can be hard to get for certain tires.

JMPOV    

 

Lots of laughs. Good and sound advice man but,  I was painted in to a corner from day 1 when i knew i wanted to build this machine.

EDIT: on my important parts if they are small enough i keep them in my room, never too hot or cold. 

[dw230]

jj,

Let us know your plans. What body style, engine class and your secret stuff. There are no projects that stay hidden for long in the LSR community.\

DW

[cdoublejj]

i'm not really building salt flats machine but, i'll tell you but, more than likely you someone will tell me i'm wrong or crazy and maybe I am.

I need a 3.50 x 8" tire than can with stand 100-125 mph. At current i'm using cheap Chinese non speed rated DOT approved tires that have worked fine during my 3 top speed runs at 65, 72 and 75 mph. the problem is every thing went good and it handled fine, maybe even better than fine since i haven't modified the chassis for better handling yet.

http://www.dratv.com/noname19.html

The problem with that is i'm hitting 75mph on bone stock 155cc crate engine, one that some people are also getting 85 mph. 1 guy named Ivan who is a Dakar racer hit 115mph on a similar engine a 177cc Honda nice. I can and plan to go as far 239cc PLUS addition performance tweaks and modifications not JUST a bore up.

Marginal Returns. When i first started this project i had a 119cc lifan engine that got me 45-50mph and the 155cc got me to 75mph. I have to remember marginal returns but, for me that was only about a 25-32cc increase with a more aggressive build and i got 75mph. I really have to think if Ivan Hit 115mph and i hit 75mph, 100mph might very be possible and if indeed that is the case so might be 100+ mph.

Here is the important bit, this bike works fine for farting around the in back yard and cruising the streets. This will be something i plan to DD from time to time in town maybe hit the highway every now and then and maybe hit a trail or 2 every now then as well as riding it in the yard. It also needs to look relatively stock which is one reason i don't want to upgrade to 10" wheels and tires.

I also think being at 8" helps in the fact that it ride so log to the ground which i think is part of the reason it handles so well at 75mph... Keep in mind this is straight line speed though it can indeed turn but, it isn't gonna turn on a dime like sport bike nor is that what i'm aiming for. Also gearing tire size has an effect on gearing... and weight bigger wheels and tires have an affect on weight... and looks and so on and so on.  This is also why i'd really like to keep the stock tread pattern, 1 becasue i used it off the asphalt, 2 i'm trying to keep the stock look of the bike and so people don't notice (sneaky sneaky) "

"I bet 50 bucks that mustang can't take this mini bike."
You're on!
 

Now i've been doing a little research on tires and the technologies and the layers and parts of the tires. I'm still reading and have some stuff book marked but, the biggest take away for me is something called a Nylon Cap or Belt. Once past a certain speed centrifugal forces pay a big part on the tire integrity so they implemented a Nylon Cap to hold the tire together to help combat that centrifugal force and keep the tire from blowing.

I have no idea if the tires i had or even if the J rate 62mph 3.50 x8 tires (best i can find so far) have Nylon Cap and if the do if said Nylon Caps can be reinforced or made bigger/stronger.

If they have 17-28 some odd inch tires that can handle 400 PLUS Miles Per Hour!!! I can't be completely freaking insane especially with all the advances in plastics and rubbers and tires they've been making in recent decades.

That i said, that's the jist of what i'm doing and planning. I guess this the part where you all tell me I'm wrong, stupid, crazy, moronic and the people in white lab coats drag me off.


EDIT .... What gets me is people say it's not possible for a tire that small but, you know i think just maybe if that was the case, i think my tires would have exploded already. if they can go this fast being pumped out of a Chinese factory just imagine what pair built with, time care and good materials could do. On another note when my current tires are finally wear out, I think i'm interested in cutting them in half and seeing whats inside (the different layers)

[Peter Jack]

The first thing to do is shave just about all the rubber off the tread area because that's what will give up the ghost first. Your very small tires will be rotating rather quickly and centrifugal force will cause a heavier tread to separate. The problem with doing that is you reduce the resistance to puncture and running on public roads you need that.

What you're trying to do is very different from what most lsr racers are trying to do because you probably won't have near the heat buildup from a heavy vehicle. As has been explained here the guys who go really fast spend big money on tires and run on prepared courses so there is much less possibility of tire damage.

If you're really concerned, as some Bonneville racers have been in the past, you build your own tire testing machine designed to load and spin the tire to your desired speed and find out how and when it fails. That shouldn't be difficult but will involve some initiative, time and money. That's the only way you'll really find out for yourself.

Now if you're really serious, that's what you'll do.

Pete

[RichFox]

As usual i don't know anything about small tires. But I'm going to jump in anyway. I know they race 50cc small scooters in Japan and other places. I guess they have good tires for them. Nose wheels on light planes may also be something to look at. As well as Go Karts. Some of those shifter carts are quite fast. I really don't think it sounds like you are going to have a problem with your project. But if you really think you need to invest in race tires these might be a place ti look t.

[cdoublejj]

Thanks for the replies guys ! 

well if i really had to maybe i could have to sets of tires, what i have now and 1 set for racing.

I have thought about making my own testing machine. I've seen some pretty big electric motors at a diesel shop once and that got my gears turning so to speak. i've actually thought about doing something similar for project evolving a small engine flywheel. (on that project the flywheel is the weak link).

In laboratories, i think the tire tester spins the tire AROUND a giant drum AT speed versus just the spinning a tire up to RPM. though i'd think just spinning the RPMs would put MORE load on it since you have gravity putting some down force the on tire in the real world, thought that may actually mean more forces pulling against the tire, i'm not sure on that one yet.

I've already tried contacting a company called Shinko who makes tires and Micky Thompson said they do NOT make custom tires. I haven't contact good year yet.

[Glen]

The high speed tires we run on the Turbinator II have been spun at 600 mph. The car has been 470 mph. The and the new MT tires will cost you around 1000.00 each. There is a lot involved with high speed tires, wheels, air pressure, balance, off set, etc. The high speed cars have about 6 degrees total steering input. The care of the tires is critical. We keep the weight of the car off the tires when stored so they don't get flat spots. What ever you do you will need to do is study,makes tons of notes, keep a loog book of the build and comply with all current rules. This goes for motorcycles as well. Good luck on what ever you do.

[Freud]

Phil York ran an AMA record with a 50 cc Honda with nitro 100 MPH.

That was 40+ years ago.

FREUD

[Buickguy3]

  A final note about high speed tires: Contact Tom Birkland. He's been there, done that.
     Doug