Probing for ideas for a FWD lakester

[SPARKY]

Here is the problem as I see it---- If you do not build a car that you "could" put a aero competive body you will just be throwing you money away.  A  rear eng. dragster type lakester "MIGHT" be build fairly inexpensively ----but it is still going to cost you a TON---  I would look at Al Eshenbaugh's new car. With a lot more body it could be fairly aero clean.  His car is just about a SIMPLE as one can get it and has ROOM to grow into other systems if need be.

[revolutionary]

On the power end, a small block with moderate boost will get you where you want to be. If you want to be easy on parts, you can do a small cube big block with boost. You don't need 2000hp to go 300 in a streamliner or lakester.

[Boostedballs]

Here is the problem as I see it---- If you do not build a car that you "could" put a aero competive body you will just be throwing you money away.  A  rear eng. dragster type lakester "MIGHT" be build fairly inexpensively ----but it is still going to cost you a TON---  I would look at Al Eshenbaugh's new car. With a lot more body it could be fairly aero clean.  His car is just about a SIMPLE as one can get it and has ROOM to grow into other systems if need be.

I saw Al's lakester in tech (SW2013?) and I really like the design and the fact that there is room for whatever power plant you want back there. But, I'm leaning more towards the front wheel drive setup myself though. I just need to figure out the layout for the front axle and steering. I have no experience with quick change rears and wether or not they will have lubrication issues if I were to flip one upside down. Of course that poses a challenge with pinion angle and U-joint angles.

If all else fails, I could slap together a RWD 2.2L turbo Subaru setup that I already have. That would be the easiest and cheapest way to get a lakester on the salt but dang it, I want to drive something with serious power.
My budget is really only about 20k but I do all of my own fab work and engine building / tuning.
I will likely start out with a mostly stock LSx or BBC, just to get on the salt, then worry about building it up later.

Now, as far as transmission selections... Which would be better- 4l80e, TH400, TH350, 700r4, 200-4r???
 

[tortoise]

Now, as far as transmission selections... Which would be better- 4l80e, TH400, TH350, 700r4, 200-4r???
 

4L80E would have the smallest rpm drop shifting into high.

[lowflyer]

Hi there, This is one half of the old Strange Days FWD car, now owned by TFA Racing in Houston. My partner Karl posts quite a bit, I do not. We have no actual experience with our FWD setup, but I thought I could weigh in on what our current setup is. The previous owners bought a Winters quick change setup for reverse rotation by Winters from Joe Timney (Delaware Chassis Works). The only down side to this is reverse rotation is limited to I believe a 4.11 r&p ratio, then corrected by the QC gears to whatever you want. I believe we are in the 2.40 final drive range. The outer axles and housings are narrowed Jeep Cherokee. It was pointed out to us that the scrub radius for the front wheels needed to be as close to zero as possible. In our search for wheels we found none that would meet our criteria. We were fortunate to find Raceline Wheels in LA that is making us custom offset wheels.  The steering is controlled by a Sweet rack and pinion. The rear, er, now "front" end is joined to the Turbo 350 trans by a Mark Williams coupler. The trans is hooked to a Patriot 383 crate motor.
Hope this helps...
We are currently thrashing to have the car ready for August. Hope to see every one there.

[Sumner]

,...The only down side to this is reverse rotation is limited to I believe a 4.11 r&p ratio, then corrected by the QC gears to whatever you want. ....

Not sure when or if the 4.11 ratio will be a problem regarding pinon speeds.  With 28 inch tires you have the following pinion speeds...

MPH .. RPM
200 = 9873
225 = 11107
250 = 12341
275 = 13575
300 = 14809
325 = 16043

Has Winters or Joe suggested a top rpm for the pinion?

Sum

[John Burk]

Hi Boost . The 2 important things with front wheel drive is zero scrub as has been mentioned and an overrunning clutch in the driveline so it handling doesn't go nuts if the engine locks up . Fortunately drag boats need them also so they are available . Casale and Beaverfab make them . This is the Beaverfab :

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beaverfab.com%2F6101.html&ei=JF9YU4-MOpDeyQGVwoGQCg&usg=AFQjCNFZ8jCJ9JKm3nHsOc7iAGOkbNYlPA&bvm=bv.65397613,d.aWc&cad=rja  

[SPARKY]

I have personal, first hand knowledge of the benefits of the benefits of having a freewheel overrunning system in a rear wheel drive.  You blow up---NO LOCK UP---   you just roll along  with no eng noise but one rolls along.

[tauruck]

Sparky, that very thing has been bugging me. Would you care to elaborate?.

No jack intended or maybe it's time for a separate thread.

Thanks.

[Boostedballs]

I was under the impression that an automatic trans inherently has the freewheeling capabilities. 

[Sumner]

.....Now, as far as transmission selections... Which would be better- 4l80e, TH400, TH350, 700r4, 200-4r???

I think you will find that most overdrive transmissions are not built to handle high HP in overdrive.  I'd check with whoever builds the transmission to make sure you can run the HP you need through 4th.  Considering you are going to need north of 800 HP to run 300 with a lakester that probably puts the 4l80e at the top of the list because of the HP and the lower rpm drop as was mentioned.  200r4's have been build to handle big HP but they have the largest drop. 

The lest expensive combo to build would probably be a 2.14 GM rear, TH350 (not much difference in 2nd--2.52 vs. 400's 2.48) and 28 inch tires.  300 mph = 7711 rpm so you need a good motor.

If you could run the 4l80e and run 4th then the rpm would be 5800 so you could run GM 2.28 gears (300 = 6162) or Ford 2.47 gears (300 = 6700).

The G-Force 101A would be a little more expensive up front at about $4000 (trans, shifter, clutch) but would offer much better gear ratio choices.  Withe the auto's 1st gear is a waste so you have 2nd-3rd to work with and O.D. if it will take the HP.

The other with the big block would be Sparky's combination of a powerglide and a gear vendors but that is also an expensive option.

Good luck and if you go frontwheel drive follow the advice given above,

Sum

[Frankie7799]

Sometimes automatics do freewheel after an engine failure but in my experience they momentarily lock up, break the case and then they might freewheel. Not fun. I like Sparkys powergilde/GV setup.

[Sumner]

Sometimes automatics do freewheel after an engine failure but in my experience they momentarily lock up, break the case and then they might freewheel. Not fun. I like Sparkys powergilde/GV setup.

It works and got him in the 300 mph club  .  Of note is that his Gear Vendors was made specifically for B'ville by them.  He has told me the differences vs. a regular GV but I'd better let him explain as I'd probably get something wrong,

Sum

[Frankie7799]

It works and got him in the 300 mph club  .  Of note is that his Gear Vendors was made specifically for B'ville by them.  He has told me the differences vs. a regular GV but I'd better let him explain as I'd probably get something wrong,
Sum

That it does Sum. He explained to me a little bit about the differences of a standard GV unit and his. Wish I had one of those GV units on the back of my 'glide when I broke my motor. Wouldve saved some parts in the glide along with the case.

[revolutionary]

Sum,

the QC diffs use a primary and a secondary gear set. The primary can either be 4.11 or 4.56 or a couple of others.  Then the secondary gear sets (the actual quick change ones) that slide in the back can be swapped as the primary multipliers to change that 4.11 into anything from about 2.xx up to 7.xx.