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Author Topic: Breaking Wind  (Read 85665 times)
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revolutionary
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« Reply #300 on: April 07, 2018, 05:11:21 PM »

cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry cry   I tried to go back through the build  I couldn't get any of the picts to open

Big thanks to Photobucket for that. I lost tons of pics when they hosed us. I do have most of the build pics but the best place to look at a lot of the early build pics is on JavaJoe's Facebook page (Coffey Fabrication) here https://www.facebook.com/pg/CoffeyFabrication/photos/?tab=album&album_id=486569108119655
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #301 on: April 07, 2018, 09:32:16 PM »

I paid for a Flickr account.  Lost all my Photobucket links, but downloaded all the pics and closed the account.  Yeah, destroyed 70 percent of my build diary.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
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« Reply #302 on: April 09, 2018, 09:55:04 PM »

Scaled the car today and am pretty happy with the starting point. I know I'll catch hell but my Intercooler tank is not totally full and is about 30lb light. It sits where a passenger would sit. Otherwise this is with full fluids and me.

LF - 1100
RF - 1095
LR -1200
RR - 1178

total - 4573
L/R = 50.3%
Rear bias 52.0%
Cross weight 50.2%
CG = 6.3" off the ground

It still sits about an inch lower than I really want but will be ok for Arkansas this week. I need to get other front shocks to raise the front any more. The .250" thick steel floor pan really helped get the weight low.

I'll figure out if it goes straight soon enough!
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SPARKY
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« Reply #303 on: April 09, 2018, 11:10:35 PM »

 cheers cheers cheers cheers
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
revolutionary
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« Reply #304 on: April 14, 2018, 09:33:41 PM »

Made a couple licensing runs at the Arkansas Mile today at 146 and 172. Clearly I need a bunch more first and second gear in the 3sp lenco.4 sp would be better but that is a bigger project. Wind has been hell and it rained all morning. I was happy to get two runs in today but it may be too windy again tomorrow. We'll see.
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SPARKY
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« Reply #305 on: April 14, 2018, 11:19:16 PM »

sounds like you are having a good first outing!!
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
revolutionary
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« Reply #306 on: April 17, 2018, 07:47:03 AM »

Sunday morning was pretty good. We went out for what I planned as a balls out run. Had the pedal to the floor and it ran fine but just didn't feel like it had the power it should have. Ran 199.3, which is ok but far from what I had expected. We contemplated loading it up as I had a plane to catch in Nashville but I got talked into getting back in line and caught a break when Kris Henderson (63 Jag which ran 200) offered me his place further up in line. Got strapped in and waiting for the wind to die down I was just running the throttle pedal back and forth and could see under the cowl hood that it didn't look like the throttle was going all the way open. I had my guys pull off the hood and sure enough, I was only getting around 40% throttle. That accounts for the lack of power!
They fixed it and put the hood back on whereupon I continued to wait for the wind. I hit my hard out time and we had to pull out of line to load up and make my flight, so no true balls out run for me Sad

Key is that I made three solid passes, the car runs straight and stops, the chutes work, and I feel much more comfortable driving it. Success.
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revolutionary
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« Reply #307 on: June 01, 2018, 08:12:09 AM »

Getting ready to run again this weekend. Looking at the datalogs, we had 49% throttle and about 3psi boost at the last event. Fixed the throttle so I'm looking forward to much better than 200 now!

A bunch of folks got good pics in Hot Rod
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/2018-ecta-arkansas-1-mile-challenge-mega-gallery-results/#133_ecta-hot-rod-top-speed-challenge-2
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revolutionary
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« Reply #308 on: June 14, 2018, 06:42:56 AM »

Went back out to Arkansas a couple weeks ago for more testing. Figured out more stuff.
1. car went 213 on 11psi
2. car went 214.8 on 15psi but now the fuel system looks like its dropping off and we got super lean.
3. the clutch must be adjusted after 3 passes. It is a twin disc Boninfante deal and I need to do some tweaking in the greenhouse so I can adjust the clutch in 30 minutes instead of 3 hours.

Apparently I chose the wrong fuel filter and it is a big restriction and killing the pumps. Got to fix that and maybe replace the pumps.

Got to make a quick disconnect firewall so I can get to the bellhousing without removing the driver's seat and surrounding sheetmetal.

Otherwise the car is Dodge easy to drive and goes really straight.
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #309 on: June 14, 2018, 03:41:45 PM »

Just a couple of comments: On you fuel fiter challenge, are you running a filter between the fuel cell and the pump? If so that filter needs to be very large, probably at least a -12 fitting size and the element needs to be fairly coarse screen, not paper or F glass. The real filtration should be done with a 10 micron screen filter on the outlet of the pump, again the bigger the better. Check and clean both filters often.

Are you referencing the the manifold pressure to your fuel regulator? The amount of fuel that passes through the injector is dependent upon differential pressure, i.e if the manifold pressure goes up then the fuel pressure must also increase the same amount or you will go lean! Most good pressure regulators have a fitting on the adjustment side which will allow you to connect this side of the regulator to the engine inlet manifold down stream of the blower. Do not use anything larger than 1/4 inch tube or stainless hose. If it gets to large it will become unstable.

Rex
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revolutionary
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« Reply #310 on: June 15, 2018, 10:32:43 PM »

Hi Rex, I have two Holley 130gph pumps mounted inside the fuel tank with inlet socks on them. The two run on independent electrical circuits but the lines join into a single -10 outside the tank. The external filter was 26 micron. It was a now discontinued Holley filter that looks like an Oberg UFO. I didn't check the flow limitation of that filter, which was my mistake, and there is no direct info on it now, but the Oberg version is limited to around 90 or so gph. I was normally just turning on one pump for piddling around but then turning on both for the full passes. With both pumps on, the filter just couldn't flow so it was overworking the pumps. Now installing an inline Holley filter rated at 260gph.

This issue also set me to doing some hand calcs to verify my fuel system was otherwise up to the task. I went and checked the fuel pump ratings again, which advertise at 130gph, but are really only 88gph at 60psi or100gph at 43psi. Under boost then and using rough calcs, 88gph x 2 pumps = 176gph. At .6 BSFC, it takes 175gph to feed 1800hp, which is about all I am going to use for now. Also it takes 135 lb/hr injectors. I have Holley 160lb/hr injectors so I'm ok there. And the fuel pump/filter, lines are all now ok to that level as well. As a side note, we used this same engine/turbo/fuel injector combination in a previous car and it started running out of injector (maxed out duty cycle) by around 25lb boost level, which should be about 2100hp or so. I need to get comfy with the car at speed for a while and see what it can do at this power level, so I'm not going to be turning it up that high.

Yes, I'm referencing the manifold pressure. It was all working correctly on the dyno and through the first few runs, but then the logs show fuel pressure was climbing, as it is supposed to, but then would start dropping under higher boost/load/rpm, indicating fuel starvation. Fortunately I was on C16 so nothing got hurt, but it was up around 14:1 at points.

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jacksoni
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« Reply #311 on: June 16, 2018, 09:05:37 AM »

FWIW Aeromotive (which has nothing to do with your system I understand) recommends a 100micron filter on the inlet to the pump, 10 micron on the outlet. Basically just supporting what Rex has suggested. If you restrict the inlet to the pump, it cooks them.
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Jack Iliff
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SPARKY
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« Reply #312 on: June 16, 2018, 01:38:05 PM »

I would suggest going to a mechanical pump to run the boost referenced EFI injectors; you may have to run a remote tank for it but it WORKS.

   Inspectors kid me about my big lines 12 to the pump and 10 from the pump to the pressure regulator 10 to the final filter 10 to the y and 8 from the y to the carbs. The pump--  its big enough to feed 1800 HP on alky-

-I run na gas---but I have never had any starvation issues
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #313 on: June 16, 2018, 02:00:26 PM »

Good that you checked the pump flow at your needed pressure. To many people think that if it is rated at 130 gph it is that at all pressures. Pump leak internally from the high pressure side to the low pressure side (intake) and the amount they leak is related to the quality of the pump and the viscosity of the fluid being pumped, so fuels  like gas or methanol have very high leakage. This, as you are finding out, can become a problem as your boost is increased as the fuel pressure  also needs to be raised and this just increases the pump internal leakage and reduces output. It certainly looks like you could use more pumps or higher output pumps at least. One of the things that most don't consider is that the fuel pressure regulator valve has a flow/pressure range that it is most efficient/accurate at and it needs a excess of inlet fuel flow to properly modulate the fuel pressure to engine. We are all dazzled about top fuel and funny car engines using 120 gpm (gallon per minute) pumps but a large portion of that fuel flow is routed back to the fuel tank or the pumps inlet port depending on the plumbing scheme being used. This extra fuel is needed to provide their main pressure control valve with the ability to accurately control the system pressure.

Also on your multi pump set up do you have a check valve on the output of each pump? What can happen is that without an outlet check valve when one pump is not running it will leak fuel back to the fuel tank from the pump that is running. The check valve should be large and also have a low cracking pressure (3 psi is good) as the cracking pressure will add to the pump out let pressure required.

Really looking forward to seeing your car make a full pass with big boost and everything working well. It will be assume!

Rex
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revolutionary
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« Reply #314 on: June 17, 2018, 02:06:16 AM »

trying a new photo hosting site, tinypic
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