'86 Camaro for B'ville

[overdue]

New rulebook arrived. Made more progress on my engine / oilpan / oil tube problems. Got pics posted on TGO's forum.

[jacksoni]

Great looking car!

........ Weight gets to be a big topic when traction becomes an issue. People load the back. This is not good for aero stability as soon as you spin the tires and the back gets out a bit as it wants to keep going. Delicate balance between going straight and going Acura first.

Good points.  The Studebaker was about 3100 lbs. before we started adding weight.  None is behind the axle.  Some ahead on both sides for traction and then more further forward under the transmission and more in the nose to help balance the car and now...



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20construction%20menu.html

....the big vertical stabilizers allowed in comp coupe that help even more,

Sum

Thanks Sum- I liked to joke that the SCTA made a big mistake using a car from a heretic East Coaster as an example of a GC class car in the rule book.

[jl222]

Since you have no class ideas (run whatever) the Trans Am nose on a Camaro puts you in Altered at least. Not a problem though the engine swap makes you GC anyway. By the way, the nose on  Gary Eakers car in '89 was not a stock piece but a special (maybe one off- I don't know) from GM that had a deeper air dam. Lowering the car of course in needed. There is/was an aftermarket supplier of an air dam looked factory but 2" or so more air dam worth looking at though of course you can make your own similar to what Keith Turk (Freiburger) did on their earlier model Camaro and of course many others as well. I am not sure if lowering spindles for that year are still available. Is what I used and a fellow in Ohio I have talked to building similar had asked about. I have not recently researched that. He may have. Let me know if you are interested in site for the air dam.

  Better check if SCTA allows Pontiac nose on Camaro. I hope so because then we could put a Trans Am wing on the Camaro

                  JL222

[jacksoni]

Not a rules expert but I think a Pontiac nose on a Camaro would put you in Alt at best, more likely CC. The spoiler, as you know, must either be factory stock or built to the rule book specs. Now if you fixed the tail lights so the Camaro looked like a 'Bird, likely no one would notice.....

[redhotracing]

Frank Hartman (Captthunder) built (or bought?) some nice headlights covers for his Camaro, which would put you in
/ALT but running a turbo LSx will probably put you in a Modified class anyways. We made ours with flexible poly from
Allstar Performance and braced the cover with 1/4" solid rod. We used the same material for our chin spoiler; it was
easy to cut, drill into and bend around a support structure.

As for street legality, I drove the Camaro to and from meets at Maxton before we switched fuel systems (and went to
a 3 gallon cell)... The 2.50 rear made stop and go ridiculous, but that was with a T56 and later a Jerico. A 4L80 would
be much less of a pain.

Good luck, and feel free to PM me with any questions or pointers. We built a 200mph car on a slim budget; with the more
widely available/cheaper turbo stuff out there now, you can do better with less $ I'm sure.

[dw230]

John,

Go back to the original post. He does not care about records. He will have a hard enough time meeting safety before running legal.

DW

[jl222]

John,

Go back to the original post. He does not care about records. He will have a hard enough time meeting safety before running legal.

DW

  Well dang. I thought you would chime in with a yes or no

   But I don't think a Trans Am nose on a Camaro would be legal for altered and only legal for completion coupe unless stretched the minimum 12 inches.

                 JL222

                 

[dw230]

John,

Contact your committee chair person in Section 16 of the rule book.

DW

[jacksoni]

John,

Go back to the original post. He does not care about records. He will have a hard enough time meeting safety before running legal.

DW

  Well dang. I thought you would chime in with a yes or no

   But I don't think a Trans Am nose on a Camaro would be legal for altered and only legal for completion coupe unless stretched the minimum 12 inches.

                 JL222

                 

You only have to do ONE of the qualifiers to be CC (Chop, stretch, belly pan, set back) but only CC allows "streamlining" of the front of the car (not counting covering headlights/grille = Alt) I suppose as DW suggests, talk to committee person- Might not be legal at all making it a time only car. Sorta like 1 piece front ends.

[bvillercr]

John,

Go back to the original post. He does not care about records. He will have a hard enough time meeting safety before running legal.

DW

  Well dang. I thought you would chime in with a yes or no

   But I don't think a Trans Am nose on a Camaro would be legal for altered and only legal for completion coupe unless stretched the minimum 12 inches.

                 JL222

                 

You only have to do ONE of the qualifiers to be CC (Chop, stretch, belly pan, set back) but only CC allows "streamlining" of the front of the car (not counting covering headlights/grille = Alt) I suppose as DW suggests, talk to committee person- Might not be legal at all making it a time only car. Sorta like 1 piece front ends.

So your saying one piece front ends puts you in time only category?

[jacksoni]

John,

Go back to the original post. He does not care about records. He will have a hard enough time meeting safety before running legal.

DW

  Well dang. I thought you would chime in with a yes or no

   But I don't think a Trans Am nose on a Camaro would be legal for altered and only legal for completion coupe unless stretched the minimum 12 inches.

                 JL222

                 

You only have to do ONE of the qualifiers to be CC (Chop, stretch, belly pan, set back) but only CC allows "streamlining" of the front of the car (not counting covering headlights/grille = Alt) I suppose as DW suggests, talk to committee person- Might not be legal at all making it a time only car. Sorta like 1 piece front ends.

So your saying one piece front ends puts you in time only category?

Ut OH- Sorry- As I generally run GC at Bonneville my brain has focused in on that class more than others and a one piece front end is specifically not allowed in that class and would not be, of course, in production. Alt and CC of course different.  I did not mean to imply, though my statement seemed to do so, that  a one piece front end would make it a time only car, but that it would be illegal. Having rechecked the rule book, it applies to GC only as best I can find. Sorry for the confusion/miss-statement

[jacksoni]

John,

Go back to the original post. He does not care about records. He will have a hard enough time meeting safety before running legal.

DW

  Well dang. I thought you would chime in with a yes or no

   But I don't think a Trans Am nose on a Camaro would be legal for altered and only legal for completion coupe unless stretched the minimum 12 inches.

                 JL222

                 

You only have to do ONE of the qualifiers to be CC (Chop, stretch, belly pan, set back) but only CC allows "streamlining" of the front of the car (not counting covering headlights/grille = Alt) I suppose as DW suggests, talk to committee person- Might not be legal at all making it a time only car. Sorta like 1 piece front ends.

So your saying one piece front ends puts you in time only category?

Ut OH- Sorry- As I generally run GC at Bonneville my brain has focused in on that class more than others and a one piece front end is specifically not allowed in that class and would not be, of course, in production. Alt and CC of course different.  I did not mean to imply, though my statement seemed to do so, that  a one piece front end would make it a time only car, but that it would be illegal. Having rechecked the rule book, it applies to GC only as best I can find and the first class the OP would be in would be GC with the engine swap. Sorry for the confusion/miss-statement

[overdue]

........ 2.73:1 in the rear, 0.75:1 in the trans, and 28.6" (Y)-rated road tires puts my RPM at 7249 to go 301 MPH. which brings me to the 4L80E....

Just a couple more things to think about.  Hooley's Stude weighs between 5000 and 6000 and with a 1.90 first gear and the 2.47's and with the old motor, probably between 800-850 HP, 40-50% throttle is about max without blowing the tires off.  The 80LE with the 2.48 1st and the 2.73 rear will make 1st about useless.  

Our second was a 1.30 and he still wasn't able to run WOT in 2nd ever.  Not until the 1:1 3rd and the 7% overdrive was he running WOT.  I think you will probably find that you will be running 3rd and overdrive  and 1st and 2nd will be pretty useless.  We went with the 101 to stay away from a huge rpm drop between 3rd and 4th.  A high HP turbo motor might make that drop ok, but we are still tying to keep it at a 15% max even with the new turbo motor.

5 miles is also a lot longer than most dyno pulls and Subaru happens  .  

You are also going to need to buy landspeed tires and the goodyears at $600 a piece and they are a tad under 28 inches so just a bit smaller than the dia. your quoted.  I get the same speed at rpm you do just wonder about that big jump going into 4th.  You are going to have to make sure your power band is wide enough for it.

Figure probably $5000 for the required safety equipment to run over 200 with a blown front-engine car.

Keep studying and keep planning and try to avoid some of the screw-ups some of us have done  .  We are just trying to help in that direction,

Sum

I accept I still have a lot to learn, whether or not my wishes are compatible with this rulebook. I'm still only 20 pages in, it is a lot to absorb, even for a guy who knows drag racing V8 ponycars intimately.
 The RPM drop into OD can be offset with torque converter stall.
 With a remote adjuster for the wastegates, I figure I can do 0-7 psi in first, 7-14 psi in second, 14-21 psi in drive, max boost in OD.
I know this has been done before, I just have to figure out how to make it comply with the rulebook. anyway, the only real strain on the engine will be in OD, not the whole 5 miles.
 The 4L80E gearing can't be helped, without wasting a grand on an aftermarket 2.20:1 first-gear gearset.
I'm attaching Holdener's dyno results.

[overdue]

First, what would the cops pull me over for? Seriously........

I've driven enough Hot Rods and Pro Streets to know that any cop that sees a roll cage and a parachute knows it's just a matter of time before you hit the throttle.  That's all.

Scottie J

Admittedly I haven't mastered the rulebook yet, but since my 'maro now has a class 3 hitch through the rear bumper, why wouldn't I just grade-8-bolt my 'chute to that when I get to the salt? After all, on the streets I'll have 14" 6-piston brakes.

[overdue]

More or less streetability of a Bonneville car has been a topic here before and the consensus has been that with all the requirements for cage, seat, fire systems etc etc, not to mention mounting the dry sump tank in the passenger area, replacing all glass with lexan, and the list goes on and on, that it is not a viable deal. You can work up on it certainly but ingress and exit with the cage and helmet support requirements makes it tough. If I can get it to work will post a photo of my 'Bird. Front springs cut one turn, dropped spindles and the deeper front dam. At rest, I could just get two fingers under the nose in the center. At speed, it lifts. I ran the stock spoiler on back at first but took it off and ran faster but I was not traction limited, which you will be.

McDonald and Pitts/Mike LeFever (dynoroom here)  IIRC (don't want to misrepresent here but I think this is right) ran the 91-2 vintage which has the new nose but old back I think and were over 300 (??313?). You might ask them about stability. Mike told me the stock spoiler worked well when you need downforce on the rear. Weight gets to be a big topic when traction becomes an issue. People load the back. This is not good for aero stability as soon as you spin the tires and the back gets out a bit as it wants to keep going. Delicate balance between going straight and going Acura first.

 Great info here, thank you! And especially the pic. I've run out of free time for today, but I may have a question or 2 after I think this through.