Author Topic: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????  (Read 85296 times)

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Offline Sumner

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #75 on: January 22, 2014, 01:45:37 PM »
The Extremeliner uses 22 spline gears. They were made like that to stop the splitting up through the square spline on the really small gears like the 2:18 set in....



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar-4/gear-set-1.jpg

..... the picture next to a set of 22 spline gears. The Extremeliner and the Champ rears have the same center line between the Pinion and the lower shaft and the gear sets are the same width. The rear cover has huge bearings, an upgrade from the Champ rear.
Hope this helps.

My goal is to have an Extremeliner in the lakester someday  :-),

Sum

Offline desotoman

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #76 on: January 22, 2014, 03:40:26 PM »
Any images of a 1:1 ring/pinion set to share with the unwashed? :-)

Jack,

Check out this site. Plenty of information. http://www.arrowgear.com/index.html

Tom G.

The Extremeliner uses 22 spline gears. They were made like that to stop the splitting up through the square spline on the really small gears like the 2:18 set in the picture next to a set of 22 spline gears. The Extremeliner and the Champ rears have the same center line between the Pinion and the lower shaft and the gear sets are the same width. The rear cover has huge bearings, an upgrade from the Champ rear.
Hope this helps.

Joe,

Thanks for the information and pictures. Some more question for you, what is the major and minor diameter of either the pinion shaft where the gears slide on or the gears themselves? When ordering a 2.0 R&P in the unit can you chose from either a 31 spline spool, or Winters Track, or are you limited to just the Winters Track? Is the Winters Track set up for 31 spline axles? And how much for a Extremliner with a 2.0 ring and pinion with side covers, and the cost of the quickchange gears?  You can PM me if you want on the cost. Thanks for the help.

Tom G.
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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2014, 01:24:03 AM »
... this site. Plenty of information. http://www.arrowgear.com/index.html...
Thanks Tom. But I didn't find any images of the pieces needed to house a 1:1 ring & pinion- 3rd member housing and differential case (or its substitute- spool or whatever) that mounts the ring gear. I'm having trouble conjuring up a mental image of a 3rd member that contains equal-diameter ring and pinion gears.
Do these custom rearends typically use spiral-bevel ring/pinion? or straight-bevel?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 01:26:34 AM by Jack Gifford »
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Offline Joe Timney

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2014, 07:49:29 AM »
Tom,
The major dia. is 1.430, the minor is 1.250. The 2:00 R&P can come with a 31 spline spool or a 31 spline Winters Track. This is a special diff that only fits the 2:00. I sell the Extremeliner 308 or 2:00  for $3150 (list $3500) with a spool. The 8121W-200 option is $703.64, list is $804.17. Gear sets are $119.20. I would have to get a quote to delete the tubes and housing ends (guess would be $200 less).

Hope this helps,
j
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Offline Bob Drury

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2014, 12:08:33 PM »
   For those of you thinking about using a Quickchange, There is one caveat to remember.  The Quickchange pinion is (I believe) 2 1/2" lower  than a 9" Ford.
   I learned the hard way and had to modify my chassis crossmember for the driveshaft to clear when I switched from a 9" to a Winters Q.C.
   Other than that, I love the Q.C. and the Winters Tru-Trac that I have in it.
   Mine is the standard ( in which the center section is one inch narrower than the extremeliner) and I wish I bought it from Joe rather than Winters (they don't discount to poor bastards like me).  
   By the time I added Wilwood disc brakes, I am in it around $3200 to $3500 (2005 prices).
   I thought about buying the Extemeliner, but it was a grand more at that time and my Visa (sponsor) was tapped out.
   The downside is you are stuck with the 4.10 ring and pinion in the standard version, so if I were buying new, I would step up for the Extremeliiner.
                                                                                                                            Bob Drury
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 12:10:54 PM by Bob Drury »
Bob Drury

Offline desotoman

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2014, 05:06:07 PM »
... this site. Plenty of information. http://www.arrowgear.com/index.html...
Thanks Tom. But I didn't find any images of the pieces needed to house a 1:1 ring & pinion- 3rd member housing and differential case (or its substitute- spool or whatever) that mounts the ring gear. I'm having trouble conjuring up a mental image of a 3rd member that contains equal-diameter ring and pinion gears.
Do these custom rearends typically use spiral-bevel ring/pinion? or straight-bevel?

Jack,

The one I have and ones I have seen are based off of a quickchange rearend's. I have never seen one made for a drop out center section, but that does not mean someone has not. Most all of these units that have been made are really custom units using their own design cases, spools etc. Some have bought Aero gears and installed them into older Quickchange units, but that was before Winters made the Extremeliner Q-C rearend.

"Do these custom rearends typically use spiral-bevel ring/pinion? or straight-bevel?"

I have seen both types of gears used in different manufacturers units. The rearend in my Modified is still intact otherwise I would post some pictures of it for you. If I run across any pictures of one I will post them.

Tom G.
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Offline desotoman

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2014, 05:28:36 PM »
Tom,
The major dia. is 1.430, the minor is 1.250. The 2:00 R&P can come with a 31 spline spool or a 31 spline Winters Track. This is a special diff that only fits the 2:00. I sell the Extremeliner 308 or 2:00  for $3150 (list $3500) with a spool. The 8121W-200 option is $703.64, list is $804.17. Gear sets are $119.20. I would have to get a quote to delete the tubes and housing ends (guess would be $200 less).

Hope this helps,
j

Joe,

Thanks that helps a lot. As I recall the minor on my shaft is 1.045. So the Winter's Extremeliner shaft has 46% more material in the minor diameter, than a standard 10 spline Q-C gear shaft would have.

I will give you a call next week as I have some more questions for you. What is a good time to call?

Thanks for your help,

Tom G.
I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

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The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline Sumner

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2014, 08:35:39 PM »
Just a followup on what we have decided to do and are doing for the Stude and my lakester.  The 8.75 2.28 ring and pinion is going on the shelf, but not forgotten.  I already have a GM 7.5 and 2.28 and 2.14 gears for the lakester and will start with the 2.28's.  Also have a Torsen center section that takes 28 spline axles that I'll have to order.

For the Stude pretty much the same will be tried.  Buddy (that 'flatcad' guy) donated a GM 7.5 and John Burk basically donated 2.14 gears with his bargain/bargain/bargain basement price  :-).  Thanks guys, and today Hooley bought a Torsen off of ebay.  He has Ford axle tubes that he probably can use.  I have 3 ford 9 inch rear-ends and don't want to cut the tubes off of them so will buy aftermarket tubes.  He measured the I.D. of the ones he has and it looks like we can cut the tubes off outside the bell on the 7.5's and slide the Ford tubes over them and weld everything up.  It this works I'll be posting pictures.

At this point we will probably not try and put the 7.5 in the Stude for Speed Week as we have the transmission setup now for the 2.47 Ford rearend and geared for the speed we'd like to run if possible as a first step.  If that works then we would change to the GM 7.5 for maybe a later date and re-gear the transmission.

Joe's Extremeliner is still what we would both like to have at some point,

Sum

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2014, 09:13:24 PM »
I have donor 9" housings if you need them.
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Offline Sumner

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2014, 11:53:53 PM »
I have donor 9" housings if you need them.

Thanks, the tubes aren't that much....



....I'll talk to you though  :-),

Sum

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2014, 12:13:47 AM »
"Standard"( what ever that means in this case) quick changes use spiral bevel gears for the ring and pinion. That means that the pinion center line is on the centerline of the ring gear but the gear form is of a spiral configuration which is a stronger gear form than a standard bevel gear which will have straight cut gears. The actual input shaft to a quick change can then be ran below the ring gear center line into the lower gear of the quick change set then up to the pinion shaft which again is on the ring gear centerline but now the ring gear is on the other side of the pinion to get the axle rotation in the correct direction. A Ford 9 inch uses a hypoid bevel gear form which has the pinion center line below the center line of the ring gear and this allows for a much stronger gear form as it's root is longer. This type of gear configuration has somewhat more sliding action when it turns. I have never heard of, which certainly doesn't mean that it hasn't been done before, a 9 inch hypoid gear set being made into a quick change configuration. It would certainly seem that you could run the pinion in from the back with the ring gear flipped to the other side and then run an input shaft below the ring gear centerline enough to clear the spool and then have a change gear set up like a Winters but it would require special change gears as the center line distance between the shafts would certainly be different than a Winters. I would think that this configuration would require a lube pump to insure lubrication of the ring and pinion. Or you could run the pinon below the centerline and run the input shaft above the centerline which would put the ring and pinion contact point below the fluid level and put the drive shaft into the case in a fairly high position. Anyone want to do it?  probably 20-30 grand for design and another 50 for tooling and you could have one.

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Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2014, 01:08:02 AM »
... Winters made the Extremeliner Q-C rearend...
Any idea why I can't find anything about "Extremeliiner" on Winters' website?
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2014, 02:11:54 AM »
Go into Winters site and then into catalogues. Pick the Closed Tube Components catalogue and go to pages 16 and 17. The catalogue loads slowly so give it time. Your spelling is probably challenging the system too.

Pete

Offline John Burk

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2014, 03:14:31 AM »
In my streamliner I have an inverted dropout 12 bolt and a V-drive mounted 15" behind it . The input shaft back to the Casale V-drive runs through a tube below the spool and next to the ring gear . The tube is welded to the aluminum dropout housing with an o-ring where it comes out the front of the Ford housing  . An electric pump supplies oil to the pinion bearings . Would have been simpler to just use a 9" center section but the greater pinion offset would put the shaft 3/4" higher and wouldn't clear the spool . A million possible combination .

Offline Joe Timney

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Re: Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2014, 08:19:08 AM »
Tom G.,
I am in the shop 9 to 5 EST daily...Monday we will be closed, in the A2 wind tunnel with a pair of APS motorcycles. FUN!!!

I'll have new Winters Catalogs in a week or so.
j
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