Anyone looking for a rearend with a taller ratio????

[Richard 2]

Thanks Overdue,
                          Your right about the proper welds for such an application.  The price of a spool was out of the question. We did find a Torsen for a buck 25 on e-bay.
I put the 2:16 gears on the other day. Later on I will cut the housing to put the Ford bearings and axels on. A friend that is planning a car for Bonneville called Moiser and found out they have a kit to do such
a swap.   If push came to shove we would weld up the spiders.   We are shooting for 1,4000 to 1,600 HP from this motor and try to element anything that could cause problems. I know we can't element all risks
but would like to minimize them as much as we can.  

We're having a ball, hope you are too.
Hooley



Hey Hooley, Glad you are having fun. I did some quick calculations, are you going north of 300 mph?  Or way north.
Good Luck Richard 2

[mike f]

Hi Bob: Mike from MF Performance here. I just put a post on Micro-Blue coatings on line for all to read.  When I talked to you on the phone I told you that the Blow Fish used 2:30 gears from us and that the Speed Demon used Micro-Blue coated parts in there driveline system.  I know they use a quickchange not a 9".  Later this week I will post the story on how the 2:30 gears came to be.  I have worked with Craig from Micro-Blue for years and this coating is only a small part of  a larger story on coatings,oils, and metal treatments.  Take care Mike

[n49racer]

Sorry guys, I was in the middle of heading to AZ for a holiday. I called about the gears today but havn't got a call back yet. I all them tomorrow again. I know they have them. Who's crazy enoughto want 2.26 gears right?

ted

[n49racer]

Currently we run 800 @ sea level. With the new engine we'll start at around 1500 and go up as required.

[Hooley]

Hi Richard 2,
                   We are geared this year for 275 to 280 mph. If all works as planned we will put the 2:16 gear is and see what happens.
Are you headed to Speed Week?

Hooley

[n49racer]

Hey Hooley
What tire size will you be running with the 2.16s. We'll run the 28" goodyears with the od, we calc'd we could'nt make it with 30" tires and 2.26 if we allow 2-3% slip

ted

[n49racer]

I found this site, www.fordification.com/tech/rearends it's great info on all the Ford Diffs.

Cheers
Ted

[Hooley]

I did make a mistake. The ratio is 2:14 and not 2:16. May be Sum will jump in with the rpm's vs speed chart he was telling me about on the phone
this afternoon.  Our tires are the Good Year 28"

Hooley

[Richard 2]

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/calculators/mphCalculator.htm

Hooley, Yes we will be at Speed Week with Bells on.   Here is a MPH Calculator Off Curries web Site, That works good.
Richard 2

[Buickguy3]

   Plug in the numbers.
     http://www.angelfire.com/fl/procrastination/rear.html

   Doug  

[Hooley]

Thanks for those links. Both work well. The results fall right it our plans if, if, if,--. I know "Best layed plans  of mice and men. "

Hooley

[mike f]

Hi to all:  How the 2:30 gears came to be.  Back in 2009 I was part of a team and during speedweeks on the salt we started to talk about what and how to go faster next year.  John's car has a 9" and changing to a quickchange would not be the answer. We wanted to stay with a 1 to 1 final ratio in the trans. and our engine builder Bob Joehnck  started talking about 2:30 gears from the 60's.  I started looking into this and found like most incomplete information.  During the PRI show I met with people from two different gear mfg. people I know and have done work with in the past.  Both agreed to check into this and would get back to me.  Both sent back the same results, it would be hard if not impossible to do using standard gear methods, I still have all the data and the nice part was neither charged me for their work.  I think that if it had been done in the 60's a different case was also made with a different pinion surport was used.  While working on a different project for Roush Racing and over dinner the VP of racing and a person from a different gear mfg. started asking me about what I was doing out on the salt.  I brought up the 2:30 gear problem and Mark from the gear mfg. said he felt it could be done.  It would done in 3 steps with having a cost to each step.  After talking to John about it, he gave me the ok to go ahead and he would pay the cost.  Step 1: enter the data into a computer program to see if a different way could be found to do it.  Most of what I know is proprietary because if affects other gears being made at that time and being made now.  By using tooth counts from different gears and CNC grinding it could be done.  Step 2:  Find the material and blanks to do this.  Luck was with us because gears using these numbers where being made and so a number of how many would come into play.  The least amount was 10 with 12 set aside because 2 might be used up in the grinding process.  I could have had 100 or 1,000 made but cost would not have been that much less and at the time did not know how many could be sold. Now why is this even done?  NASCAR had made a gear rule but the rule had loop hole in it.  An example would be, teams could use a gear between 3:25 and 3:33. If you look in most books these at this time where standard production gears case closed.  Now because of computers and CNC machining the door is open, so 3:27, 3:29 and 3:31 came into play at a high cost.  We have gears now that most people don't even know about.  Step 3  Set up a time line to get the gears done, because of the low number we had to wait our turn and it took some time.  By June they where done, QC complete, run-in complete and we had 12 sets to our name.  John paid the final bill and they were sent to my shop.  Now to make it clear, John owns these gears, I am selling them for him.  John is a true racer and he took the total bill and divided it by 12 to come up with the cost.  I am not making a dime on them and John will break even on these gears if we sell all of them.  John and I have been friends for years and I was happy just to get it done for him.  I know some people say they cost to much , well then see if you can do it cheaper.  These gears are made from the best material and by one of the best gear mgf. in the world. The gears are Rem polished, EDM and ready to go.  Cost is 4,000:00 and 4,400:00 Micro-blue coated.  Any Questions contact me.  Thanks Mike  MF Performance LLC

[John Burk]

In 1980 and 1981 some Dodge 8.25" rears came with 2.24:1 ring and pinions .

[tauruck]

I've got a couple of 9" 2.05 sets in the works as we speak.

According to the gear cutter all is well and I'll have pics and details soon.

[Sumner]

I did make a mistake. The ratio is 2:14 and not 2:16. May be Sum will jump in with the rpm's vs speed chart he was telling me about on the phone
this afternoon.  Our tires are the Good Year 28" ...Hooley

Well a little late on this and might not be of a lot of interest but an hour till bed-time so.... .

I'd like to share the versatility of running a transmission like G-Force's 101 and using one of the spreadsheets on my site in conjunction with it.



Above is one part of the spreadsheet I use.  To the right under the double red arrows is a table of the different ratios available for the 101 (top right) for the drive gears (the gears that drive the countershaft off the input end of the main shaft--Input Drive & Cluster Drive).  Also shown there to the left of the Input Cluster drive gears are the ratios for 1st, 2nd and 3rd (which can also be an overdrive 4th).  Down to the right in that area are the Drive Sets we have and the 1-2-3 gear sets we have bought used for our two 101's (Stude & Lakester) that we can choose from.

Underneath the double purple arrows is where you input the gears you are using for the Input/Cluster and 1st, 2nd and 3rd.  Those inputs will then automatically be posted to the left as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears.  So you input the gears, rearend ratio and the tire diameter and the spreadsheet does the rest for you.  The area between the 2 middle blue lines gives you a quick idea of speed in gears and you can input any rpm's you want there for your combination.

The top left arrow shows that we have the present Ford 2.47 rear selected and that at 7000 in the overdrive 4th (yellow arrow) the car should be running 270 mph.  These are the gears we are going back with for Speed Week but we will have the other gear sets with us.  With the transmission out of the car you can change any of the gears in less than an hour.  Getting it out of the Stude is not a fun job.  I hope to make that much easier with the lakester.

The quick speed in gears at different rpms by the 2 blue arrows is nice but we need to look further down the chart for the telling information and this is something that most of the speed calculators don't give you...



Above we can pick any rpm we want for shift points and see the rpm there and the drop in rpm during the shift and the new rpm in the next gear after the shift.  This can help to make sure you stay where you want in your torque/HP curve if you have that info.

Above we will shift at around 7000 for this example.  135 is 6982 rpm in 1st.  We loose 2155 on the shift and end up at 4827 in 2nd.  In second we would be shifting at 195 and end up at 5827 in the 1:1 3rd.  The final shift would be at 230 and we now only loose 925 rpm with the .865 overdrive 4th dropping to 5947.  Further down the sheet we would see that 7000 is about 270 mph, our immediate goal.

If that works then we could re-gear the transmission, staying with the 2.47 rear...



...with the gears we have on hand ending up with a .829 overdrive 4th where 7000 is 282 mph and 290 would be 7250.  Notice we left the cluster drive gears as they were and only changed the 4th gear set.

The better plan though would be to build the 2.26 rearend we have talked about in this thread.



With it in the car we could again change the gears in the 101 from the ones we have and end up with a better 4th overdrive of .90 which would only give us a 10% rpm drop between 3rd and 4th instead of the 17% we had with the 2.47 reargears.  A 700 rpm drop on the shift to 6300 rpm. Now we have changed the 4th gear set and also the Input/Cluster Drive gears.

The G-force 101 is a great fairly low budget transmission for the salt and since it was used by NASCAR and now isn't finding barely used gear sets right now is a pretty easy and inexpensive deal compared to other transmissions out there and the spreadsheet makes it very quick and easy to do 'what-if' scenarios for different combinations of drive gears and gear sets along with rear gear ratios and tire sizes.

One last one.... the dream situation  



...changing 4th and the input/cluster gears.  We have the gears for all of the above situations and more on hand.  They cost anywhere from $50 to $100 per set used but hard to tell they were used.  

In the lakester I'll run a combination for the 3 mile course, working on gearing for 175 at the 2 1/4 that hopefully will get the car qualified for the long course and then change to long course gears,

Sum