Author Topic: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown  (Read 8152 times)

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Offline sabat

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Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« on: December 17, 2013, 10:49:48 PM »
Sorry if this is a repost, but here is a detailed post describing a F1 cylinder head. Lots of pictures and explanation. -Dean


http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15385

Offline Jack Gifford

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 12:58:21 AM »
Besides being author of this, who is Brian G?
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Robin UK

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2013, 05:21:06 AM »
Impressive but not sure why he thinks he needs to keep some of the background secret. If it's a Hart as one person says then it could be from the 4cylinder 415T turbo engine or a later V8. I don't know but I know a man who will. Alex Macfadzean is leading The 52 Express turbine bike streamliner project due to run next year and as a long term friend of Don Vesco is a former member of the Turbinator team.

One of his oldest friends is Brian Hart and in fact Alex built his dynos and engine test cells before Brian retired from F1.One of the early concepts for the bike project was to use either one or two 415T turbo engines (much like the Castrol Rocket) which Brian donated since F1 had moved on since then. Heat management was the major issue which is why Alex went the turbine route. He still has most of Brian's original engine drawings and blueprints along with one complete V8 F1 engine (the last Brian built) plus a load of other stuff. Thought you might like to see a Pankl rod and a piston for the sectioned engine that is the subject of this post. Basically, it's a piston crown with a rod attached  :-)

Robin

Offline sabat

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 10:06:08 AM »
I'm guessing that he is just being extremely cautious. I wonder how things have changed over the last 10 years.

Great pics, thanks for posting.

Dean

Robin UK

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2013, 05:32:38 AM »
Dean,
here is another pic of the piston crown showing just how much valve area you can squeeze in. My bet is that lots has changed in the last ten years - more recently as a result of advanced engine mapping for hot and cold exhaust blowing of rear diffusers. Until they placed restrictions on it, RPMs were close to 20,000rpm. The latest generation of F1 engines (due to be replaced next year) are really compact compared to days gone by.

Robin




Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2013, 11:49:14 AM »
Compare the struggle you have to get 8,000 rpm, compared to 20,000!

Sadly, F1 is limited to 15,000 in 2014.

Cheer up! There is no restriction in LSR!
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Offline Saltfever

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2013, 12:17:40 PM »
I also think they are limited to 6 engines per driver for the whole year. Meaning one engine allowed for practice,  qualifying, and the race at 3 to 4 different venues!

Offline rouse

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 01:12:22 PM »
I'd like to know why the valve retainer/piston was not shown in any of the pictures. I'd like to see just how it is made along with how the seals are arranged on that part.

Additionally, what PSI do they normally run on this valve setup. What valve seat pressure is what I'm asking, and what PSI does it take to get it.

Rouse
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Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 01:16:18 PM »
Very interesting--thanks for posting...  :-)
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Offline JoshH

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2013, 01:17:18 PM »
Speaking of the limited numbers of engines. I saw this interesting article that shows the vital stats of the just the Renault V8 engine program - http://jalopnik.com/renault-says-adieu-to-their-superb-v8-f1-engine-1468867422 - keep in mind this was just Renault

The stat that jumped out to me was they built 1,271 engines over an 8 year period and of those 588 were used for dyno use; that's 46% of the total built, amazing considering the technical spec was frozen..? I guess allot of time spent on improving mapping and different throttle schemes for blown diffusers and such.

Also look at the total number of parts used.  21,8000 pistons, 43,200 intake valves, 45,900 exhaust valves... Sounds like production to me

Offline dw230

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2013, 01:58:57 PM »
When I helped Mike Cook a few years ago with the BAR Honda powered F1 car the Japanese techs pulled the engine out of the car and hid it behind some crates in a hanger we were using. They had stuff that had to be removed and hidden before I could certify the displacement. I would guess that the valve arrangement was a part of that.

DW
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Offline WOODY@DDLLC

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2013, 05:12:50 PM »
Start with the engine supplement: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/download/

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Offline 4-barrel Mike

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2013, 05:44:27 PM »
Compare the struggle you have to get 8,000 rpm, compared to 20,000!

Sadly, F1 is limited to 15,000 in 2014.

Cheer up! There is no restriction in LSR!

Only 15,000 rpm?  Gosh, nobody will be able to pass for the lead.

Oh, wait...

Mike
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Offline Stan Back

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2013, 06:07:51 PM »
Maybe they'll incorporate the stupid "Push to Pass".
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Offline Saltfever

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Re: Formula 1 cylinder head breakdown
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2013, 08:44:24 PM »
Maybe they'll incorporate the stupid "Push to Pass".
They already have two. DRS (Drag reduction system) when the wing articulates to reduce drag and KERS (kinetic energy recovery System). DRS is typically allowed at 2 places on the track and KERS is limited to the amount of extra energy they can use per lap. DRS zones are the same position on the track for everybody but can only be used if you are within one second of the car you are overtaking or trying to pass. However, KERS can be used by the driver anywhere he wishes.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 08:50:39 PM by Saltfever »