Author Topic: The Math of a new venue?  (Read 26999 times)

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Offline bearingburner

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2013, 11:03:18 AM »
I believe it was posted here several years ago that you could rent the shuttle landing strip for $ 10,000/day

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2013, 11:53:27 AM »
The costs and obstacles are massive.

Starting with an abandoned air strip gives you a base pavement to start with. The other couple of miles on either end could be purchased.

How long do you need if it's paved? The problem of wheel spin becomes much less.

All we need is a Kickstarter crowd sourced funding for $50,000,000  :roll:
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Offline desotoman

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2013, 02:48:13 PM »

....For that kind of money why not buy Intrepid's Wendover division instead. They you can control everything and not have to reinvent the wheel.  Tom G.

I've thought about that many times.  I wonder how much the place would go for.  I wonder how much they are paying for their leases?  Outbid them?.

Sum


Sum,

I had time to do some Goggling last night. Found a PDF that was an interesting read along with the background of the mining. I could be wrong but it looks like there are about +or- 24,000 acres of land leased to Intrepid Wendover and somewhere on the internet it said the lease price was over $200 an acre. Please don't quote me do your own research as I could be mistaken. Using these numbers the cost would be + or - $4.8 million a year just to lease the land. So that is out of the question unless someone wins the lottery and would love to donate their winnings to a good cause.  

Tom G.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/planning/documents.Par.17457.File.dat/Intrepid%20EA.pdf

Potash extraction operations began in the early 1900’s in Tooele County near Wendover
Utah under the authority of the 1872 Mining Law. Although the Mineral Leasing Act of
1920 proclaimed that potassium and similar minerals such as sodium and magnesium were no longer locatable under the Mining Law, several thousand acres of mining claims were grandfathered and in 1929, patented into private ownership. In 1936, Bonneville Ltd. was the first company to successfully produce potash by solar
evaporation (Gywnn, p. 1-3, 1996). In April 1962 Bonneville Ltd. applied for ten potassium leases adjacent to their operations near Wendover Utah.

Ten Federal Potassium (potash) leases covering 24,699.83 acres were issued to Bonneville Ltd. on January 1, 1963 under the authority of the Mineral Leasing Act of 1920. These ten leases were assigned to Standard
Magnesium (and Chemical) Corporation on May 1, 1963. The leases were then assigned to Kaiser Aluminum and Chemical Corporation (Kaiser) on April 1, 1964. On July 1, 1988 the BLM approved the assignment of these
leases to Reilly Tar and Chemical Corporation. On December 1, 2004 the leases were assigned to
Intrepid Wendover Potash LLC

Fiscal Year 2012, activities on public lands generated $4.6 billion in revenue, much of which was shared with the States where the activities occurred. In addition, public lands contributed more than $112 billion to the U.S. economy and helped support more than 500,000 jobs.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 02:57:30 PM by desotoman »
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Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2013, 04:07:51 PM »
Whoa -- thanks, Tom.  That's some in depth research (even if it's wrong :-D).  Your conclusion, though - that if one of us wins a big payoff in the lottery he'd be able to lease the land and provide it for racing.  I wonder what BLM would say about that -- since he (we?) would be paying a fee to BLM and NOT taking out any material/minerals.  Maybe they'd give him/us a better lease rate because we wouldn't degrade the inventory of available potash.  Do you think so?  Would you like to write the cover letter to the BLM and I'll sign it with a few of the other racers?  Thanks.

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Offline maj

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2013, 04:33:37 PM »
we need a 12 mile long evaporation pond, that we can control the salt level and drainage
off season it could be pumped with brine and on season drained as needed

Offline Richard 2

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2013, 04:50:20 PM »
I believe it was posted here several years ago that you could rent the shuttle landing strip for $ 10,000/day

That's only 2 acres of Nebraska corn ground. Sounds cheap
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Offline desotoman

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 02:05:17 AM »
Whoa -- thanks, Tom.  That's some in depth research (even if it's wrong :-D).  Your conclusion, though - that if one of us wins a big payoff in the lottery he'd be able to lease the land and provide it for racing.  I wonder what BLM would say about that -- since he (we?) would be paying a fee to BLM and NOT taking out any material/minerals.  Maybe they'd give him/us a better lease rate because we wouldn't degrade the inventory of available potash.  Do you think so?  Would you like to write the cover letter to the BLM and I'll sign it with a few of the other racers?  Thanks.

 :roll: :roll:

From what I read the lease is good for quite some time, 10 years as I recall.  The way I understand it the lease goes to the highest bidder, so if you were Bill Gates, Warren Buffet or any of the Walton clan, who have quite a few billion $$$$$$$$$$$, and were into LSR, that would be pocket change for you.

????????????????? I never said anything about better rates, or writing a letter to BLM, but you are more than welcome to if you like. 

Tom G.

PS. If I get a chance I will call the BLM and find out.
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Offline AJR192

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2013, 01:14:07 PM »
Why not just run on the South side of I-80?????? That is where the salt went.......

Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 03:18:46 PM »
Why not just run on the South side of I-80?????? That is where the salt went.......

God I wish it was that easy!

The high speed tire situation really has us committed to running on salt, anything else won't keep them cool on a seven or eight mile pass. 300 ish is doable on dirt but much beyond that will require more distance & a different tire.
  Sid.

Offline Freud

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 04:42:11 PM »
kiwi bellie tank, you just hit on one of the factors that is frequently overlooked.

The temp of the salt is much lower than the ambient air. The water  is right

at the surface and the lack of traction leads to tire life.

A long asphalt course would present an entirely different situation for tires.

Any increase in speeds would add measurably to tire temps.

Just another hurdle that would exist if the track surface was changed.

Just nuke the potash plant.

FREUD





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Offline racefanwfo

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2013, 05:48:53 PM »
There is an airport is spain up for sale starting bid is 100 million dollars. Ciudad Real's Central airport has one runway and it is 13,123 ft long. Could be a long tow for some racers.
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Offline 38Chevy454

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2013, 11:38:56 PM »
Brand new concrete runway at Spaceport America in southern New Mexico has 10,000 ft length.  Not much activity there now as far as aircraft.  They need money so this might be a possibility to rent out for a few days for an event?
http://spaceportamerica.com/
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Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2013, 08:25:46 AM »
Brand new concrete runway at Spaceport America in southern New Mexico has 10,000 ft length.  Not much activity there now as far as aircraft.  They need money so this might be a possibility to rent out for a few days for an event?
http://spaceportamerica.com/

Wow...that's very cool. Do I see a New Mexico Mile in the future? Seems like it would be worth looking into...
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LTA   G/BGALT Record (1.5 mile)  148.321
LTA   F/PRO Record (1 mile)         114.668

Offline rouse

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2013, 10:16:17 AM »
There's no return road there. Things could be a little on the slow side for a mile :roll:

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Offline Gary Perkinson

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Re: The Math of a new venue?
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2013, 03:00:25 PM »
There's no return road there. Things could be a little on the slow side for a mile :roll:

Rouse

Actually, it looks like there's a fairly well-developed network of dirt roads around the runway and the terminal--it might be a little dusty driving back to the pits or to the starting line, but I'm sure a return route could be figured out, and I can't imagine it would be too much different from what you get at El Mirage:

http://spaceportamericaconstruction.blogspot.com/2010/07/spaceport-america-runway-south-view.html

http://www.amusingplanet.com/2012/12/futuristic-looking-spaceport-america.html
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1 mile)     143.313
LTA   G/BGALT Record (1.5 mile)  148.321
LTA   F/PRO Record (1 mile)         114.668