My '59 Enfield /Indian 750cc Chief High Compression Build

[Briz]

Dont forget that at the elevation of Bonneville and its lower air density, you're automatically down about 10-20% on power.
Lots of folks (me included!) have shown up at the salt thinking its going to be easy and gone home with tail between legs!
A 92mph bike will be lucky to go 79 at Bonneville.

I live in Denver, I'm about 1,200' HIGHER than Bonneville.  Once I rejetted the carb I'd actually pick up a couple mph if anything.  And for the bike I'm building now will EFI with laptop interface so I can program the fuel map to whatever I need.

Oops! Sorry mate; didn't notice that! You'll be well placed to get your tune right then.
But whilst rejetting & EFI will make it run right, there will still be less oxygen molecules going in than at sea level. Only forced induction will make up for that.

[Koncretekid]

 A few notable pushrod records at AMA/BUB you can shoot for:
750cc  -  A-PG 130.903 Blackwell, J Harley-Davidson 2012
750cc -   A-PBG 127.795 Daly, J Buell 2011
750cc  -  APS-PF  142.608 LeiNeweber, Justin Triumph Trident 2013
750cc -   APS-PBG 133.952 Daly, C Buell 2011
750cc -   M-PG 159.903 Mellor, T Triumph 2008
750cc   - MPS-PG 180.317 Tom Mellor, Triumph Trident 2008
1000cc - APS-PG 200.082 Tom Mellor, Triumph Trident 2013
1650cc - APS-PBF 207.803 Perewitz, J Perewitz 2013
2000cc - APS-PBF 218.838 Minonno, J Harley-Davidson 2008
3000cc - M-PBF 190.413 Koiso, H Harley-Davidson 2011
3000cc - MPS-PBF 214.342 Koiso, H Harley-Davidson 2013
3000cc - MPS-PBG - 210.646 Koiso,H Harley-Davidson 2013

Just giving you the scope to strive for.  Check the rules and the records before you go.

[Stan Back]

"I plan on running methanol for fuel.  I'll be running dual 34mm Mikunis naturally aspirated in hopes of flowing about 160cfm per head.  And I was thinking of using a fairing.  I'll be using the factory chassis with modern wheels, suspension, brakes and an extended swingarm."  Scottie

Come on you guys!  He's got this all figured out.  Why are you picking on him?

[Scottie J]

"I plan on running methanol for fuel.  I'll be running dual 34mm Mikunis naturally aspirated in hopes of flowing about 160cfm per head.  And I was thinking of using a fairing.  I'll be using the factory chassis with modern wheels, suspension, brakes and an extended swingarm."  Scottie

Come on you guys!  He's got this all figured out.  Why are you picking on him?

Thanks Stan.     Like I've said before, I've been researching this build for over a year, inside and out.  I know what my '58 is capable of and I know what other guys have done to their Interceptors.  Guys are hitting mid 130's to low 140's mph on their NA cafe/race bike Interceptors.  Not only are these guys EXTREMELY limited to their gearing availability/options but they are also NA.  If I take all the steps these guys have already done, plus the fact that I'm having Ace Cafe & Mondello's build the heads, and then cram at least 8psi of boost, not to mention a fully programmable EFI system,  PLUS the fact that I'm putting modern wheels, brakes and suspension on my bike which will open the door wide open for gearing options.  I have my grounds covered for what I want to do.

BUT for all you Nay Sayers, if you don't think I can hit 200mph, then what is your honest educated opinion of what speed I can achieve?   

Also, I should have my rule book any day next week.   

Scottie

[4-barrel Mike]

Scottie,

You haven't had any real nay-saying.  A real nay-sayer says something like:

.
Jonny, I seem to remember a bet we have that when your car runs 250 I will tattoo your logo on my body in the area hidden by my wallet pocket.

I feel comfortable that I will remain inkless.

DW

 

Mike

[SPARKY]

I feel a fund raiser coming on the MPH lotto instead of the HP dyno Lotto 

[wobblywalrus]

The fellow with the silver trident proved this year that a NA British push rod motor can do 200 mph.  There is reason to believe the Enfield twin, with some work such as pressure enhancement and fuel, can produce the power of that NA triple.  That, combined with very, very, good streamlining, is what will do it.  It will not happen overnight or without a lot of effort and money, but it can be done.     

[bak189]

There is a world of difference between a late model 1960's BSA/Triumph Triple and a 1959 Enfield  twin cylinder I have done some work on these Enfield engines in the past, it would need  something better then a stock crankshaft........and then I don't think the crankcases would hold together........Fuel injection and a blower will give you some horsepower.....BUT the whole plot has to stay together for 2 runs for a record......NO WAY, get real.......
If it hold together (and it will not)  maybe 150mph.........like Stan said you got it all sorted out.....be sure to post your build here so we can all learn something................even at 77 years old and over 60 years of racing M/C's and sidecars I am always open to learn from a 35 year old expert. (and dreamer).....................................................

[desotoman]

From another forum:

"My Bonneville pictures.
This picture from 1962 was sent to me by an old racer from Southern California who worked for Cooper Motors, the So-Cal Royal Enfield distributor.
They were there to support Jimmy Enz's effort at attaining a record with a Royal Enfield.
I don't know if Jimmy set any records, but he passed away in the mid-60's, and his bikes were acquired by Don Sliger, who was (I think) Mr. Enz's mechanic.
Don set several records, one at 160 mph with a 750 Interceptor, and a record set in 1970 for the fastest non-faired motorcycle, which stood for many years using a twin-engined Interceptor, at 205 mph.
Of particular note in this picture, which features Jimmy Enz's bike and the wife of the guy who sent me the picture (he might actually be on ADV rider, he'd be using the name "Bletz"), is the recognisable shape behind them.
That's right, Burt Munro was sharing pit space with Jimmy Enz, probably because Cooper Motors was helping support both racer's efforts."

Tom G.

[Nortonist 592]

BUT for all you Nay Sayers, if you don't think I can hit 200mph, then what is your honest educated opinion of what speed I can achieve?   

Scottie

Scottie,  I don't think you'll find any nay sayers here.   What you will find is a huge amount of salt racing experience and that experience will give you an honest (but educated) opinion.   No one here can say with hand on heart that you won't hit 200.  But the cumulative years of experience will tell you that what you are attempting is akin to winning the lottery.   I can't remember reading if this will be your first visit to the salt  or not.  If it is I would suggest that you set the bar at maybe 150.  I'll wish you the best of luck with your project and I'd be delighted were you to top 200.

[Scottie J]

Hey, I am going to tell you what the other posting here apparently are to shy to tell you....There is NO way you can get that Enfield to go 200mph.................Sorry, but that is a fact............

So, it's a fact because it hasn't happened yet?  There is a clear history of guys coming VERY close with NA motors.

..........even at 77 years old and over 60 years of racing M/C's and sidecars I am always open to learn from a 35 year old expert. (and dreamer).....................................................

OK......  Now I never claimed to be an expert of ANY kind.  In fact, you just need to read my avatar and it says right there "New To LSR But Not Going Fast".  No, I've never been to the salt flats, but, I didn't just start turning wrenches last week either.  No, I haven't done 200mph on a motorcycle, but this also isn't my first bike and just figured out what the air screw is.  But here is what I have done:  I've been riding and wrenching on motorcycles since I was 13 and haven't ever stopped.  I'm not an expert at High Performance automotive, but I know enough to know what is feasible and what is not.  And while not an expert at performance, I can take a rust-bucket-pile-shit-and-bolts car, spends hundreds of hours on it, and make it look better than when the car came out of the show room.  Sure, I haven't done 200mph, but I did redline a 2004 ZX6RR at 165mph.  I also owned a 1975 Formula 350 Firebird that was built for Pro Tour that would run 125mph all day long in the twisties without once chirping the tires.

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but here's how I see things. NO ONE has ever attempted what I am trying to accomplish.  And for ANYONE to say flat out "NO, you can't do it" or "NO, it can't be done" or "You're going to blow it up" is a Nay Sayer.  I'm all for constructive criticism, but when someone starts getting defensive over their negative opinions about someone else's dreams and aspirations to the point where they start coming off as offensive.....  Well, that's just an asshole move in my book.  And even if your view/opinion is legitimate, at that point I'm not going to listen to you anymore based off of the sheer principle that you come across as an asshole.  If you want share your opinions and experience, COOL!  If you want to tell people that they're wasting their time, then why are YOU wasting YOUR time reading a topic that you obviously disagree with?   

One more thing you don't know about me is that I am driven and passionate about everything I do.  I would rather take this old Enfield, boost it, and grenade the motor sending the pistons all the way into the Indian ocean and pieces of crank shrapnel into my legs than to build some effing Jap bike to hit 300mph.  I'm not like the rest of the world.  I hum my own tune and dance to my own music.  I wear greasy clothes into the holiest of places.  I "DO" what people tell me "I CAN'T".  Because, IF I AM SUCCESSFUL with this build (which I will be whether you believe it or not) I get the honor of telling EVERYONE who doubted me "You said it couldn't be done.  And I did it before the whole world.  And I don't even want an apology.  I'm content enough with proving you wrong."

And besides, I thought racers were supposed to be encouraging, supportive and respectful towards each other.  I must say I'm a little disappointed.   

Thank you to everyone that has been insightful and enlightening with your words of experience and encouragement.

Scottie

[Stainless1]

Scottie
Don't get stirred up over an opinion here... everyone has one and everyone can express theirs... it is an open forum of racers, past, present and future... as well as spectators.
Most of us are in this for the long term... out first record with the lakester was around 137... can't remember because it was about 29 years ago... the point... we all wanted to be in the 200MPH Club, but no one including us thought it would ever happen with normally aspirated motors... fast forward... we have 4 club members with normally aspirated motors all under 1.5 liters.  So don't worry what folks think of your dream, just do it, if you don't make the first year, just keep at it...
 

[TheBaron]

There is always more joy in the journey than the destination when you try things like this....

35 years old,,,, Oh, you have the time to take on whatever you wish to try to do.....

Robert

[Scottie J]

I'm not stirred up, I just wanted to voice my opinion as well.  As they say "haters gonna hate" that doesn't hurt my feelings.  I just find it disrespectful that anyone would tell another aspiring racer basically that your whole build idea is garbage and you won't succeed.  That's all.

Scottie

[Stan Back]

What ever happened to that guy from Las Vegas, you know, from years ago, what's his name, that couldn't be deterred?