Course safety ?

[MIKE MATY]

Well folks, we can all go back to our day jobs now...Eddish called me yesterday afternoon. We were able to work out his issues in a reasonable fashion. Thank you for all playing along!
Joe

Joe there is at least another 4 pages to go here!!! LOL

[Captthundarr]

Dang, it was just getting fun. Oh well, there wil be more to come I'm sure.

[Glen]

Joe has it handled and I think this link has served it's purpose. Why not try to work with ECTA and even volunteer for something at one of the events.The newbys have a lot to learn and not yelling at a official is a good start.
Joe thanks for the update.

[roadracer]

I know the issue is handled, but I feel like I needed to post this.  As an old timer that has raced for over 40 years in about every orginization there is I have an opinion.  I was keeping it to myself, but decided to say that from what I have seen the ECTA runs as safe of an event as there is.  Was there an issue with a fender being on course, ASOLUTELY.  Was the way the course officials notified correct, while it may have worked it wasn't what we are told in every riders meeting.  If you are all right, pull to the right, unless you are leaking oil.  Did the rider loosing the fender act correctly, ABSOLUTELY NOT.  Again pull to the right.  I gone down in oil at Pocono while roadracing.  The track corner workers didn't see it.  I never thought WERA didn't care about safety.  I saw the Moose at the edge of the track in Loring and didn't call the track unsafe.  I have hit rain on the big end at Maxton while it was dry at the start.  Again it was not due to safety being ignored.  The rain started after I left the line.  I know how Joe feels about rider/driver safety.  Did you notice the lights at the traps to make sure you knew where you were. No more running long in mind.  While your issue was a BIG DEAL to all of us and it will I'm sure be something that will be looked at more.  The ECTA runs as safe of an event as you will find.  Try working it as a volunteer and you will get to see how much safety is pushed.  Happy you didn't hit the fender.  Hope you will be back for the 2 club run.  I speak for no one but myself and this is just my opinion.

[Rick Byrnes]

Do you suppose, that part of the cause of an incident like this, (unreported of losing parts on the course) just might be a result of a mind set of running laps.  
We run RACING cars and bikes.  They require maintenance that is unlike street machines.  Even production machines have unusual things happen when run to the max.  They need to be looked at and touched between runs, and I believe a cursory inspection while in line for the next run just doesn't do it.  I've been pretty much lurking around here and seeing that making as many runs as possible is the "main objective" of many racers.

Is it "Just possible"  that slowing down a little and taking care of our equipment, and just modifying our "mind set"  a little bit would be prudent?
The guy that lost the fender was guilty of not paying attention to his machine, and the guy that sort of reported it was in too much of a hurry to stop.  

Safety is the responsibility of every driver/rider and unless we rethink our off track actions these type of things will happen.  Regardless of how safety conscious Joe, Keith and the rest of the staff/volunteers are.

[Wild07]

Going to make this post before my "intro" post.  I havent read through this whole 5 pages but I will soon. 

To the OP, it was my front fender that came off.  I felt a bobble at the 1/2 mile, unloaded and loaded the chassis and it went away. I had no clue til I was beyond the 1 mile traps that something had gone wrong.  IMMEDIATELY after going through the traps and rolling out of the throttle I had an issue... The front tire, best we can figure had pulled away from the bead and dumped all the air somewhere around the 1/2 mile, started rubbing the front fender, and quite literally TORN it from the 6 mounting bolts(it may have shaken one out).  I came across Keith and he asked if I was the one looking for a fender, which was asked before I even realized it was off the bike. 

I offer my most sincere apology for causing a problem with your pass, but I firmly believe the rear of the bike never made contact with the front fender, so I had no clue it was an issue during the pass. 

I'll get through the remainder of the posts and try to catch up to this and get an intro post up as well.   

[MiltonP]

Welcome to the forum.I can see how you may have been distracted by all that went wrong and didn't even think about the fender at first.  Hopefully you won't experience that again but after reading all of this I expect you will go ahead and pull over and take stock of the damage right away.  In any case, welcome and don't be a stranger.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Rick - your post #64 says it all.  " They need to be looked at and touched between runs, and I believe a cursory inspection while in line for the next run just doesn't do it.  I've been pretty much lurking around here and seeing that making as many runs as possible is the "main objective" of many racers."

Our team is somewhat surprised that racers come out and the first thing they do off the trailer is start wrenching.  Our Team has the agenda of getting to a venue ready to race right off the trailer.   Then after our run, a complete going over takes place. Three sets of eyes going around the bike looking, feely/touchy all nuts & bolts.  Check fluids & tire pressure - then get back in line and wait.  Its really a rather simple routine once into it.  It may take away time from sitting in line, but sometimes you find something that just may make your next pass - faster.    

 Its not how many runs you make - its the quality and learning of each run that counts in my book. 

Some of all of this may be the times of today.  Many of the youngins go buy a sport bike and just want to go fast.  I think they have not yet learned the intimacy of building your machine and knowing every single nut & bolt on it.  I would suggest no mater what class the sport guys like, they should disassemble - in stages their machines, put it back together, and really start to get to know it.

Our Team is looking forward to LTA, the Ohio Mile, and absolutely the Salt next year - I have already started wrenching -

Keep it fun !
Jimbo

[roadracer]

Personally I don't see the need to look at a vehicle before every run.  It is the rider/driver that must know what he has before he goes down the course.  I come to the track ready to race, but adjust to weather conditions with gear changes on about every run.  If you run a high reving inline 4 motorcycle in the N/A class and don't, you will never set many records.  The are very condition sensitive.  As a former roadracer we were teched on Saturday morning and raced multiple races over the entire weekend.  There was no issue with pieces flying off while you were racing and we had 40+ on the track at one time.  There have been very few times when pieces have come off in Ohio.  While we all would agree one time is to many, we are racing and straining parts.  Pieces that look fine do break.  It is how we handle it when it happens.  Just my opinion.

[javajoe79]

 Kind of like what Roadracer said, I think that any car or bike prepped to race should be able to turn laps with no issues. We only run one mile at a time where in road racing it's miles and miles on end, with turns and lot's of braking.

 Except for unforseeable mechanical failures that no sort of inspection can uncover, I think everyone should be able to run laps as long as their vehicle is prepped well. This is not to say that you should ignore your vehicle in between runs but I feel that there is most definitely time in between runs for a pretty solid inspection and even a complete prep.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I get what your sayin Roadracer about the inline 4's -  But being a Harley guy all my life, we learn real quick that they vibrate and act quite a bit different then the sport bikes. Stuff comes loose on that ole 50 year technology.  Remember the saying , when you ride with a bunch of Harleys, one guy rides the sweep keepin an eye open for fallen parts. 
We just think its a good idea to give it a good look over after running, even if its just a wfo mile like Ohio.
Old habits are hard to break sometimes. 

Jimbo

[Captthundarr]

Uncle Jimbo. we race a car and check between runs as well.

[generatorshovel]

But being a Harley guy all my life, we learn real quick that they vibrate and act quite a bit different then the sport bikes. Stuff comes loose on that ole 50 year technology.  Remember the saying , when you ride with a bunch of Harleys, one guy rides the sweep keepin an eye open for fallen parts. 
Jimbo

Harley parts I've had to miss while on a run,
A chain
Header pipe
4x4 block of pine (sidestand chock)
Air cleaners
Licence plates, tail lights
3" primary belts
Various fasteners and brackets (complete or portions of same)
Battery covers
Cartons of beer cans (not HD, but part of the survival kit)
Tool wraps
Etc,,,,,,,

Tiny

[Stan Back]

Reminded me of a Harley that deposited parts and rider at El Mirage in 2009 . . .

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,6174.0.html

I thought there was a picture there-in, but don't see it.

But it did have a comment from Super Kaz (who?).

[Milwaukee Midget]

One of the things Nathan Stewart at Bonneville insisted we do after each run was get out and take a GOOD LOOK at the car before we towed back.  If you lost something, we were instructed to get on the CB and contact the tower.  

Because the pace of turning a vehicle around is slower at Bonneville, that certainly wasn't a problem - we weren't "lapping" at any point during our four days there. And while there is a pressure to "make hay while the sun shines", anybody who would infer a lame attitude toward safety within the ECTA management is picking a fight from an unjust and unfounded position, the incident sited, notwithstanding.

Because we are humans - involved in a human endeavor - working with machines of our own creation - absolute perfection will never be achieved.  While an oversight such as this is unusual, unfortunate and needs to be addressed, to do so in such an egregious, anonymous and distasteful fashion is the action of a cowardly bully.

I still consider referring to this thread as "Lame Course Safety ?" offensive, and an affront to Joe, Keith and the gang at ECTA.  Therefore, my response edit of the subject name.

Eddish has left his turd in the punch bowl and wisely left the party.  The discussion has now turned civil and productive, rather than petty and accusatory.

I think the subject edit is appropriate

Chris Conrad