Course safety ?

[Eddish]

   I went long and immediately began gesticulating to the course worker at the track end to shut down the track (yeah, in addition multiple throat slash gestures I’ll admit to doing the rider down head tap thing too).  Confident that I’d gotten the message across I returned to the staging lanes and trailered the scoot at 4:01 P …….. our weekend was done.

Let's see you did not stop and speak english to the track worker? I quit reading minds and hand gestures with my second wife. Thanks for looking out for others safety as well as your own. Here is an example of the track safety, approx. 20 min. before my wifes run on sunday a liner lost a retaining pin, I'll guess about 2" long. The liner crew reported the wayward pin and racing was halted, the offending item located and removed. No one saw a fender, you sure it wasn't a bit of tire rubber on your visor that blew off after you noticed it.

You've been listening to your breakfast cereal haven't you?

[Eddish]

.......... maybe a quick mention of this obviously traumatic event when you picked up your less than satisfactory timing slip ........  maybe ..... ?

.......... just sayin' ......................

No point, I'd already initiated a course shut-down, sweep and fender recovery ...... 

[Eddish]

Assuming you are describing things as they happened:

The racer that dropped the fender did not inspect the fender, screws and mounting points prior to attempting to race.

The technical inspector failed to notice loose screws, broken mounts etc.

The rider lost the fender and didn't turn out.

The safety crew didn't see it.

You saw it and didn't turn out.

Sure takes a lot of fails to create a safety incident, doesn't it?

Yes perhaps a lot of fails ........ but it's not as easy as jumping to unfounded conclusions.

I don't think one should "turn out" in this sort of instance (discovering FOD on track).  The appropriate response is to assure a course shut down prior to the ECTA folks sending another potential victim down track ....... and your comprehensive reading of the preceding posts will reveal that I did so.

[Captthundarr]

   I went long and immediately began gesticulating to the course worker at the track end to shut down the track (yeah, in addition multiple throat slash gestures I’ll admit to doing the rider down head tap thing too).  Confident that I’d gotten the message across I returned to the staging lanes and trailered the scoot at 4:01 P …….. our weekend was done.

Let's see you did not stop and speak english to the track worker? I quit reading minds and hand gestures with my second wife. Thanks for looking out for others safety as well as your own. Here is an example of the track safety, approx. 20 min. before my wifes run on sunday a liner lost a retaining pin, I'll guess about 2" long. The liner crew reported the wayward pin and racing was halted, the offending item located and removed. No one saw a fender, you sure it wasn't a bit of tire rubber on your visor that blew off after you noticed it.

You've been listening to your breakfast cereal haven't you?

Why yes I have as it does not "gesticulate" and "throat slash". then assume that the individual understood you. While the course was shut down and the offending part removed, you make this whole episode sound as though it is a matter of course and standard operating proceedure for the ECTA. it is not. And yes, it tends to piss me off when someone has an isolated issue and decides to air it out here instead of professionally communicating with the approriate management of the ECTA. I'm sorry you had a bad expieriance and glad you and your equipment were not harmed. Have a nice day.

[Plan B]

Much clearer now.

Your original post did not indicate that your gestures were actually effective in getting the course shut down and the piece had actually been recovered.
I read that you assumed your gestures were interpreted, you went straight to your trailer and when you talked to KEith TUrk, he didn't care about your story, (very hard to believe).

I am among the enlightened.

[ronnieroadster]

So someone on a bike losses part of a fender and never notifies anyone about the missing item. Seems I recall during the driver meeting this was talked about. Calling your experience Lame course safety is nonsense. The Lame part is the individual who lost the part and didn't think it was of any safety concern to stop the runs until the part was found. 

[Eddish]

So someone on a bike losses part of a fender and never notifies anyone about the missing item. Seems I recall during the driver meeting this was talked about. Calling your experience Lame course safety is nonsense. The Lame part is the individual who lost the part and didn't think it was of any safety concern to stop the runs until the part was found. 

I agree ........ you're spot on regarding the source of the issue.  Even a hint of dropping a part on the big-end of a mile track should be enough to set off mental alarms in any reasonable individual and generate concern for the well being of fellow competitors.  Not initiating the proper actions immediately after having done so is clearly the concern at this point. 

Since "we" can't/don't explore the ability and/or knowledge of the competitors prior to their involvement I'm putting it down to inadequate pre-race briefing.  While this experience leaves me with some doubts in this regard, I went into Wilmington (and Maxton) with a level of confidence that the organization was well and truly concerned with (physical) track safety and that my back was covered.  True it may be that "they" are concerned, the actual conditions on the ground leave something to be desired.

One can insert a lot of "ifs" and "may-bes" but bottom line is there was a big ole ugly chunk of motorcycle lying out in plain sight on that course when I got waved off.  Perhaps that is not so much of a concern for car-guys, but it's a big deal for scoot riders.

Point is there should be way better (more focused and comprehensive) pre-run briefings for us end users coupled (apparently) with better course scanning during/between runs.

Yeah, yeah, I know the argument can be made for "hundreds of runs without incident", etc., etc., but that success rate merely meets the base standard(s) of course safety .......... it's this fail-rate that results in those "unfortunate" fatalities.  And make no mistake, this speaks to a failure in a critical component of event safety.

I'm not all that bent about the guy dropping the part, nor not reacting in what should be considered the proper manner ........ dealing with that is up to the organization. 

Seeing the incident result in change in how the organization educates competitors (learning from mistakes) and re-emphasizes the critical course scanning is a worthy goal though ......... and in the interim making folks aware that they could be faced with a similar issue can't hurt either.

My chat with Keith at the conclusion of this event certainly did not inspire confidence.

Gotta go ride my motersikel now .......

[wfojohn]

So how many hours or minutes transpired before you spoke to Keith. From what I gather you spoke to no one and let the next and susequent drivers/riders to risk their well being and equipment?? Instead of bitching you should be profusely apologizing to every staff member, volunteer, participant etc. for being such a neglectful ECTA club member.

[Captthundarr]

So how many hours or minutes transpired before you spoke to Keith. From what I gather you spoke to no one and let the next and susequent drivers/riders to risk their well being and equipment?? Instead of bitching you should be profusely apologizing to every staff member, volunteer, participant etc. for being such a neglectful ECTA club member.

Oh no, wfojohn, you must reread all of his posts as he adds comments that were not in the original post and clears things up after the rant. This guy still believes that his gesturing was effective communication, why, he even communicates the color and location of the part. He is right, the ECTA should do a full coarse sweep between runs so that the safety is not lame, dude.

[jacksoni]

A small story apropos this thread. My first year at Bonneville in 1979, not knowing much and having already blown up a motor, I had a driveshaft come out of my car (broke in the middle) coming off a qualifying run (did qualify). It took out the back of the motor, block plate, transmission, shaft of course, differential, the driveshaft tunnel with seat belt mounts etc but fortunately not my Acura that subsequently got seriously reamed for not telling the course workers that I had dropped parts on or near the track. (Having qualified we had to fix everything and be in line next morning for record runs. Won't bore with long story about what that took to accomplish but we did, motor wouldn't start as distributor had been bumped while in back of truck going to SLC for welding and parts, but that fixed and later requalified and set new record). Point is, I got reamed for not reporting dropped parts.

Few years later, was sent on the long course. Somewhere in the run I came upon something in the track that I close to ran over. On reporting to the course worker that there was something in the track, was told.:" Oh, it was just a drag chute, no biggie you can dodge around it." Well, in a streamliner at 250+, I dang sure couldn't identify it nor "dodge" around it.

I understand what Mr Eddish is talking about. I wasn't so happy about being sent on a course that was not clear. But also had been a guilty party previously. We all need to be vigilant and do our best to ensure the safety of all.

[Gary Perkinson]

Well, all I can say is, the track-orientation meetings that I've been in at Wilmington and Loring have been VERY thorough, and if I had seen a bike fender on either course, I would have pulled over to the side of the course (the "I'm not injured or on fire, but there's an issue that needs to be addressed" side of the course) and waited for track personnel to come to my car and physically ask me what was wrong. I mean, from what I can tell, the original poster not only didn't talk to anyone about the fender, he barely stopped! If he had stopped on the course and waited for track personnel to go to him, and then told them face to face that there was debris on the course, the course would have been closed and swept, and no other riders/drivers would have been sent down. That's exactly why you stop ON the course--so track personnel know without a doubt that racing should be halted...

[Uncle Jimbo]

Joe & Keith do a darn good drivers meeting each morning as well as an exceptional rookie orientation.  Its up to the fellow competitors to attend these meetings, and abide by the info given. If some people don't think its important enough to attend, and learn the track rules and safety initiatives, it certainly is no fault of Keith or Joe. Find out who lost the fender and did not report it, and jump on his game to make it absolutely clear what he could have caused.
As per instructions at these drivers meetings, if you are not hurt or on fire, you stop on the course--so track personnel know without a doubt that racing should be halted...
The Wilmington Ohio Mile event is as safe as it gets for the LSR community.  Hats off to Joe - Keith, and all their dedicated Volunteers.
Now - Its time to start wrenching for next year.   

[MIKE MATY]

I am not a rookie and I still go to rookie orientations to see if there is anything new and or just to pester the shat out of Keith Turk. The rule of stopping on the right side of the course for a non life threatening event is spoken in both the rookie orientation and every single drivers meeting. I have been racing since 05 and I'll put a 100.00 on it that its communicated every single event.

[LSR Mike]

add the $.02 if eddish would have stopped and advised, most likely he would have been put back at the head of the line for a do over on the pass also.

[MIKE MATY]

add the $.02 if eddish would have stopped and advised, most likely he would have been put back at the head of the line for a do over on the pass also.

Ding Ding Ding.... I was waiting to see who else actually pays attention in the drivers meetings. You win a free Diet coke. See Keith Turk to claim your prize!!!!!!