Author Topic: Course safety ?  (Read 32306 times)

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Offline Eddish

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Course safety ?
« on: October 11, 2013, 07:36:17 AM »
OK, I’ll get the apology out of the way right off the bat;  Sorry, no “Intro” posting ……. I’m boring and rarely post (but lurk and benefit greatly from the wisdom of others …. Thanks to all for that !) so I did not/don’t expect that you’ll hear from me again.

That said, I feel that it is imperative that the following gets on the board so that others might learn something that could save some skin, if not a life.

Thanks to a great friend I was afforded the opportunity to do Ohio last month (Sept.) on a Busa and big-inch twin.  That experience followed a couple of weekends before the demise of Maxton (double handful of 200+ passes) as well as a fairly substantial career road racing (incl. one GP  Natl.Championship). so, all in all I have a few growth rings and a good bit of experience going fast at organized events.

Wilmington turned out to be a pretty ugly thrash for us due to tuning issues and we generally spent the entire weekend attempting to get a 230MPH scoot to log a 200.00001 number in order to reach our goal of a record and a hat.  The entire effort had boiled down to one last run (3:50 PM or so) for that nominal percentage of 1 MPH needed on Sunday afternoon.  The scoot benefited from that cool, damp, post-drizzle atmosphere and motoring past the ½ I was confident that we had done the deal.  That was about the time that I detected something on-track that I could only (initially) identify as a Turkey Vulture, just left of track center between the ¾ and the traps.  Yeah, we’re goin fast about here and although my world is a bit wonky (what with the speed and ogling through the bubble) I’ve seem them beasties before.  I’m out on the two-lanes (at meaningful speed) every Sunday morn and I darn sure know all about those impediments …… spotting them in the immediate vicinity while at speed calls for a roll-off, brake cover and big-time attention to the details!   Well, as one might expect things came into more precise focus in a big hurry and my Vulture opponent turned out to be a (black/dark) Busa front fender sitting there proudly, perpendicular to my route.  Naturally I tipped the throttle plates back to the full open position and muttered a few choice expletives into my Arai.  Having the aforementioned experience at roadrace tracks, after gathering in the scoot I went long and immediately began gesticulating to the course worker at the track end to shut down the track (yeah, in addition multiple throat slash gestures I’ll admit to doing the rider down head tap thing too).  Confident that I’d gotten the message across I returned to the staging lanes and trailered the scoot at 4:01 P …….. our weekend was done.

Reading the preceding I find that aside from the bit about muttering into my helmet I don’t sound anywhere as PO’d  ……. no, flat out fried ! …… as I actually was at the time.  I’m thinking things like “Just how much energy does it take to accelerate a Busa fender from 0 to 200 mph instantaneously and what are the effects of that sort of impact on my ride?” …. too; “There’s a good target for a rookie (or most anyone else) to fixate on!”  …. and;  “Just how in the Hades can somebody give Al the go to send a bike down course with a big ole black lump like that sitting out there plain as the nose of their face?” ……. AND,  “Who shed that thing and did not make sure that the course was shut down immediately? “

Something is seriously wrong with that picture folks!  That lump was perfectly located so as to be plainly visible to anyone scanning the course (particularly down on the big end where I presume(d) that “scanning” is accomplished after every pass?).  I think that the course scan, right along with competent Tech and comprehensive rider/driver briefings are the  imperatives to be met by ECTA at these events.  Pretty much everything else is secondary.  Sending a rider down course with that sort of crap on the track is flat out inexcusable and it does not take any imagination to understand that it’s asking for yet another short course LSR fatality.

Fast forward a few minutes post-loading and I caught up to Keith Turk at the registration trailer and posed the obvious question(s);  Was that in fact a Busa fender? And, “How come I was sent down course with that thing lying out there?”.  Sadly, I did not get anything even vaguely resembling what one could/should expect.  Most disturbing, from my perspective, was his response to the latter;  “We can’t see everything out there!” and this delivered with what I can/will only describe as an indifferent attitude.  Pretty much sucks in my estimation.  No one is ever going to convince me that that obstacle was not plainly visible to anyone even casually scanning the big end of that course (binoculars anyone?) from what I presume would be the timing trailer ….. period.  There’s a deficiency here (perhaps more that one?) that absolutely must be addressed by this organization if riders/drivers are to have any semblance of assurance regarding the safety they expect and deserve.

So, deficiencies identified here’s a couple of suggestions;

Never, never, never send a rider/vehicle down course if it has not been thoroughly scanned (a natural, that) !

Provide clear direction at the rider/driver meetings regarding how to properly react when something is dropped (or thought to have been dropped … or observed) on the course.

Act like rider/driver safety is important!  Copping an attitude/getting defensive accomplishes nothing and sends the wrong message.  

Oh, yeah ……… we missed our record/hat goal by about 7/10 ths. of a MPH ……. Thanks guys!

BTW;  Yeah, I too think the volunteers and Registration ladies at the event did/do an outstanding job!

Just,

Eddish
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 10:22:17 AM by Stainless1 »

Offline MIKE MATY

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 08:37:25 AM »
Having worked the timing tower many times I can assure you that the track is scanned before each run down the track. I'm not saying that it wasn't missed that time but you would be very surprised how hard it is to see even the biggest objects. Spend some time in the tower Joe would love your company.  The rule is if something comes off of your vehicle you are suppose to stop on the course in shut down and NOT continue to the shut down worker. It seems no matter how many times you tell people this they still continue off the course get off/out of their vehicle and walk over to the shut down worker.  The problem with that is once the vehicle gets off of the taxi way and on to the return road the next racer is given the go ahead. There is no communication between shut down and the tower unless an emergency arises. The tower controls the whole course. The reason for this is to save time to get the racers more runs.  If everyone does what they are suppose to there is no issue. If there is an object on the track that can be seen and or the timing tower is notified about the course will be held and a full sweep will be done. Also Keith usually does a full sweep every 2 hours as a precaution.  I know it doesn't make what happened in your case any better but I am just trying to reassure you that the ECTA does everything in their power to try and keep you safe. You are all Family!!!!
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Offline sabat

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 09:47:00 AM »
Sorry about your scare Ed, and missing the hat by a RCH.

I've been to many Maxton meets and most of the Ohio meets, and track safety has always been a high priority. I'm guessing this incident was just a freak combination of unlikely events. Keith getting a bit pissy when confronted? Not so unlikely  :-D

I wonder who lost a front fender and kept going?  Did they not realize?

cheers,
Dean

Offline javajoe79

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 08:55:00 PM »
I would pin the blame on whoever lost the fender.       Not sure how you miss that happening but I am not a bike guy either. Was the lost fender ever reported by the rider/team who lost it?
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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 09:18:45 PM »
I would pin the blame on whoever lost the fender.       Not sure how you miss that happening but I am not a bike guy either. Was the lost fender ever reported by the rider/team who lost it?

I would have to believe that any one chunking a  scooter fender at any speed, let alone one coming off of a busa at typical busa speed would have been noticed by the rider of said busa, at least one of the folks in the timing tower, and the one or two spectators that would have seen that thing doing somersaults down the track. All of these folks are blind and stupid, I DON"T THINK SO.
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Offline 1leg

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 09:42:41 PM »
So why didn't you stop on the course to shut the course down to make sure the next guy didn't have the same scare? Hand gestures while your driving by is not the proper way to communcate that the track should be shut down.

Sorry it happened to you but you made the same mistake as the guy that drop the part did.
Jerry
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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 09:48:34 PM »
   I went long and immediately began gesticulating to the course worker at the track end to shut down the track (yeah, in addition multiple throat slash gestures I’ll admit to doing the rider down head tap thing too).  Confident that I’d gotten the message across I returned to the staging lanes and trailered the scoot at 4:01 P …….. our weekend was done.


Let's see you did not stop and speak english to the track worker? I quit reading minds and hand gestures with my second wife. Thanks for looking out for others safety as well as your own. Here is an example of the track safety, approx. 20 min. before my wifes run on sunday a liner lost a retaining pin, I'll guess about 2" long. The liner crew reported the wayward pin and racing was halted, the offending item located and removed. No one saw a fender, you sure it wasn't a bit of tire rubber on your visor that blew off after you noticed it.
Live,Laugh, Love /  Jack Scratch Racing /ECTA   
Amy Hartman-Driver, Frank Hartman-everthing else.
C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline javajoe79

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 04:46:31 PM »
So why didn't you stop on the course to shut the course down to make sure the next guy didn't have the same scare? Hand gestures while your driving by is not the proper way to communcate that the track should be shut down.

Sorry it happened to you but you made the same mistake as the guy that drop the part did.
  Hadn't thought about it that way. Very true.
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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 05:46:43 PM »
.......... maybe a quick mention of this obviously traumatic event when you picked up your less than satisfactory timing slip ........  maybe ..... ?

.......... just sayin' ......................

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 06:31:10 PM »
Assuming you are describing things as they happened:

The racer that dropped the fender did not inspect the fender, screws and mounting points prior to attempting to race.

The technical inspector failed to notice loose screws, broken mounts etc.

The rider lost the fender and didn't turn out.

The safety crew didn't see it.

You saw it and didn't turn out.

Sure takes a lot of fails to create a safety incident, doesn't it?
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
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It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Eddish

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 07:11:45 PM »
Having worked the timing tower many times I can assure you that the track is scanned before each run down the track. I'm not saying that it wasn't missed that time but you would be very surprised how hard it is to see even the biggest objects. Spend some time in the tower Joe would love your company.  The rule is if something comes off of your vehicle you are suppose to stop on the course in shut down and NOT continue to the shut down worker. It seems no matter how many times you tell people this they still continue off the course get off/out of their vehicle and walk over to the shut down worker.  The problem with that is once the vehicle gets off of the taxi way and on to the return road the next racer is given the go ahead. There is no communication between shut down and the tower unless an emergency arises. The tower controls the whole course. The reason for this is to save time to get the racers more runs.  If everyone does what they are suppose to there is no issue. If there is an object on the track that can be seen and or the timing tower is notified about the course will be held and a full sweep will be done. Also Keith usually does a full sweep every 2 hours as a precaution.  I know it doesn't make what happened in your case any better but I am just trying to reassure you that the ECTA does everything in their power to try and keep you safe. You are all Family!!!!


Productive post Mike.  The tyros should benefit from your description. 

I agree, stopping on the course is the first/best method of getting the requisite attention and I did that, perpendicular to the travel path, so as to leave no question about my intent.  I always go long (with some good pace on, the extra cooling air is good for motor cool down) even though Wilmington is not a problem for early turn-off.  That's how I'm well aware that there's a course worker there with a radio.  My gesturing was clearly adequate as I observed the course worker stand up, peer at me, nod affirmatively and speak into his radio. 

Problem here is that reacting in this manner was not addressed during the riders/drivers meeting so the unknowing would not have had a clue regarding the appropriate conduct.  I'm giving the guy that ran ahead of me and shed the fender the benefit of the doubt (although I think good ole common sense should have dictated a better response to the issue). 

You mention "rule" ......... rules for this sort of conduct would be good, pass them about at Rookie Orientation as well as rider/driver meetings, otherwise they aren’t rules and in any event don’t do a whit worth of good if they’re not well administered.  Perhaps I should have added that to my Suggestions …..

I know that ECTA may be attempting to “do everything in their power to try and keep” us safe, my point is that they’re falling somewhat short of the mark.  This is fundamental stuff we’re talking here.

I do appreciate the insights though …..

Offline Eddish

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 07:23:06 PM »
Sorry about your scare Ed, and missing the hat by a RCH.

I've been to many Maxton meets and most of the Ohio meets, and track safety has always been a high priority. I'm guessing this incident was just a freak combination of unlikely events. Keith getting a bit pissy when confronted? Not so unlikely  :-D

I wonder who lost a front fender and kept going?  Did they not realize?

cheers,
Dean

Hey Dean ...... good to hear.

Yeah, it's that freaky stuff that gets my attention ....... all the "normal" stuff is in the forefront and has been dealt with.

Run log would reveal who ... but I'm not on about him.  Keith knows, says he motored alla way back to Registration and reported "Not sure but I might have lost something out there" ....... DOH!  Curious how a Busa fender could depart though, even sans hardware, given it's shape and what all.  Again, the freaky stuff ..... two of them combined seem to be the cause of many disasters.

BTW;  Keith recovered the fender after I shut down the course and forced the "sweep".


Offline Eddish

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 07:27:47 PM »
I would pin the blame on whoever lost the fender.       Not sure how you miss that happening but I am not a bike guy either. Was the lost fender ever reported by the rider/team who lost it?

I don't think so ....... stuff seems to be capable of departing most anything most anytime ....... been the culprit meself and I'm meticulous about prep.

See above reply ...... Keith knows but I was/am not interested ...... well perhaps not beyond a little briefing regarding immediate reporting.

Offline Eddish

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 07:35:29 PM »
I would pin the blame on whoever lost the fender.       Not sure how you miss that happening but I am not a bike guy either. Was the lost fender ever reported by the rider/team who lost it?

I would have to believe that any one chunking a  scooter fender at any speed, let alone one coming off of a busa at typical busa speed would have been noticed by the rider of said busa, at least one of the folks in the timing tower, and the one or two spectators that would have seen that thing doing somersaults down the track. All of these folks are blind and stupid, I DON"T THINK SO.

Errrrmm ..... does that "I DON"T THINK SO" address my veracity ?

Offline Eddish

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Re: Lame course safety ?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 07:38:40 PM »
So why didn't you stop on the course to shut the course down to make sure the next guy didn't have the same scare? Hand gestures while your driving by is not the proper way to communcate that the track should be shut down.

Sorry it happened to you but you made the same mistake as the guy that drop the part did.

No, you're inserting "Hand gestures while your driving by" into my remarks.  Read above.  I clearly did successfully communicate the issue, got the track shut down and the fender was recovered by Keith ....