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Author Topic: Solo to Sidecar by STD  (Read 74787 times)

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Offline Bruin

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #105 on: November 06, 2013, 10:02:36 AM »
37 degrees. So I'm killing time while a fat man does jumping jacks in the garage to warm it up. I'm a little gun shy about covering the engine in a fairing. The first year I ran the XR 500 at BUB I had wrapped a wind shield around the front of the engine. It had big screened vents to cool the head. Then the last day, the last run, at the best speed, the engine seized in the middle of the timed mile. It broke the rod, broke the cylinder sleeve, and pounded the piston into an unrecognizable mass. The head was useless. With a sidecar the engine will be working harder than ever. Soooo, I'm thinking I might leave the top end in the wind. Decisions, decisions.
STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG

Offline tauruck

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #106 on: November 06, 2013, 10:36:19 AM »
I see lots of different things on the forum but one never wants to offer advice in fear of something going wrong and then getting blamed for interfering.


Would a fairing mod with an inlet designed to channel air to the motor help?. Current water cooled bikes have their radiators in that space so there must be a way to get some good air to the barrel and head.  If you covered the motor with a windshield without a way of getting cool air in, well you saw the result.

I figure you need to test and test. :cheers:

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #107 on: November 06, 2013, 11:14:28 AM »
My Weslake has about as many fins as a goldfish.  It was designed to run on methanol and I run it on gas.  Cooling has always bee to the forefront.  I have two big air scoop on each side of the body.   To hell with drag in this case.  No records when you're sitting on the salt with a seized engine.
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #108 on: November 06, 2013, 03:28:02 PM »
The first picture is the classic size and shape opening for an air cooled engine.  This Suzuki was clocked at 167 mph on the Sulby Straight in the Isle of Man a few months ago.  Horsepower is in the low 100's so the bike has good aero.

The second picture is my fairing.  The tapered sides on the top quarter of the opening are intended to funnel air to the engine.  It works.  No indications of overheating were seen during this fall's tear down.  It is possible to get the good aero from a full fairing and decent cooling.

On another note, a lot of air cooled Hondas tend to run hot by design, in comparison to other brands.  We were aware of this years ago and used the best synthetic oils we could find, tried to route the oil to the cylinder heads through an external line rather than up a passage within the cylinder and alongside the barrel, and were careful to set the mixture a tad on the rich side of stoicho.  Also, those little rubber noise suppression things between the fins were pulled out and tossed.  "We" in this case were mechanics in the Honda shop I worked for.  My bike choice at the time was BSA.  I just watched all of this.   

Offline Bruin

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #109 on: November 06, 2013, 06:49:39 PM »
Guys, thanks for posting your comments about air cooled engines and fairings. I think what contributed to my engine failure is that I screened the intake holes. The holes were plenty big, but I suspect the heavy screen blocked a measurable amount of air. I was wondering, if you made the blow hole big enough to be useful, would it negate the advantage of putting a fairing around the engine. But the examples shown give me an idea of how to do it and that even a holed fairing is still helpful. I will revisit covering the engine with a fairing idea.
STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #110 on: November 06, 2013, 10:51:42 PM »
Bruin,  I'm no expert.  All I know is air has to flow across the engine in order to remove heat.  And that's it.  Many years ago in the 80s I built a kart with a Yamaha XS650 engine in it.  Put it right behind the seat.  Took it to El Mirage and after about 10 minutes of running it was almost red hot.  I built a shroud over the engine and a couple of scoops to direct the air through the shroud.  I could go to El Mirage and run all day without overheating.  That was when I learned the importance of air flow. 

If you fair the engine and a hole to let air in and some way to guide it across the engine and a way to let it exit then I think a fairing would help.  If you think back to the 70s Suzuki came out with what they called their "Ram Air System".  It was basically a shroud over the cylinder head fins to guide the air through the head fins.  Something to think about.


Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #111 on: November 06, 2013, 11:19:39 PM »
And that, the least aerodynamic of all four wheeled cars. :-D You must have had fun with it though.

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #112 on: November 06, 2013, 11:39:49 PM »
with a 19t on the trans and a 20t. on the axle you bet it was fun!!
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline tauruck

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #113 on: November 07, 2013, 12:13:27 AM »
Bruin, no jack intended. Karts are the most fun ever and I've driven them all. 250cc shifter or "Superkarts" included.

I keep my reflexes sharp every now and then. People think I'm some 16 year old hot shoe until the helmet comes off. :-D

Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #114 on: November 07, 2013, 01:57:56 AM »
Sorry Bruin.  Didn't mean to hijack.  It was kinda about airflow. : - )
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline Bruin

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #115 on: November 07, 2013, 02:13:56 AM »
A retired Kart jockey, Dennis, recently became an STD sponsor/consultant. He will love the kart talk. They look like a hoot to me. One team member, Ed Bennett, built the flying credenza with the engine behind him in a plywood housing. For flow he rigged a big Acura fan powered by a marine battery. It was a cool recumbent machine.
STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG

Offline RidgeRunner

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #116 on: November 07, 2013, 08:18:42 AM »
Bruin

    If you haven't found it already there is some info starting here that might be of interest to you:  http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,9341.255.html

      Ed

Offline fredvance

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #117 on: November 07, 2013, 09:26:28 AM »
Screens over any air intake, cooling ducts or velocity stacks, totally disrupt the air flow.
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Offline Bruin

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #118 on: November 07, 2013, 10:46:45 AM »
Ridgerunner, thanks for the link to Koncretekid's air shroud discussion. (I'm a B-50 owner and met him briefly at BUB) The info was very good and mentioned a couple of things I have been ruminating over.  I like the idea of directing the cylinder heated air away from the carb.
STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: Solo to Sidecar by STD
« Reply #119 on: November 07, 2013, 11:37:52 AM »
A kart held the lap record at the Sears Point road race track in the early 1070's.

Testing was done on several screens of different mesh using my daughter's hair blow drier and a hanging ribbon.  We did testing with clean screens and then hair spray was sprayed on them to resemble salt buildup.  They were tested again.  The chicken wire screens gave acceptable flow under both clean and dirty conditions.  The wire on these screens is fine gauge and the mesh is about 1" and hexagonal shape.  A mouse can crawl through but not a chicken.

It was desired to screen the opening to keep salt from caking on the front of the motor and causing major cooling problems.  This did not appear to be feasible using chicken wire.  The holes are too big.  The half moon fender I use now was developed to keep salt off of the engine.  The funny looking bottom of the fairing opening, with that rounded shape and little dam, is also made to block salt spray.  As a last measure, a little duck tape flap about an inch and a half tall and three inches wide is taped on the back end of the fender.  The engine is pretty clean from salt spray after all of this is done.