Author Topic: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing  (Read 18670 times)

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Offline Stan Back

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2013, 12:45:38 PM »
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« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 12:51:56 PM by Stan Back »
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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2013, 01:21:20 PM »
D-a-m-n, I hate it when I miss those deleted posts!  :evil: :evil: :-D

Pete

Offline TRRocketman

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2013, 08:16:24 PM »
Dick,

It is lovely that you have a copy of The Reluctant Rocketman!  I will be sure to get a copy of your book when it is published as well.

Sarah


http://www.amazon.com/The-Reluctant-Rocketman-Curious-Breaking/dp/0988199475

Offline MAYOMAN

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 05:24:58 PM »
  Ray,

RE: Your 10/21/2013 comments

You continue to prove my point. You have no idea what was going on in 1970.
Illinois Institute of Technology had nothing to do with The Blue Flame.

Item 1. Wrong! Our project agreement was with the Institute of Gas Technology (IGT). While located on the IIT campus at that time, it was an entirely separate contract research and educational entity focused on natural gas technology.

IGT was the coordinator and manager of the sponsorship funding from 48 member companies of the American Gas Association (AGA). IGT was the holder of the original performance contract between Reaction Dynamics, Inc. and the natural gas industry to build and run The Blue Flame.

Ownership of The Blue Flame reverted to IGT after we failed to meet our contract obligation to complete the car and run it at Bonneville in 1969. Pete and I continued to build and run The Blue Flame under a new agreement with IGT, not as “employees” of IGT, but as Reaction Dynamics, Inc. It was the same project, we just didn’t own the car any more. We were committed to finishing the project and setting the world land speed record. And we did it!

We contracted, as consultants, with two IIT professors as independent contractors; but there was no IIT relationship – ever. Drs. Torda and Uzgiris consulted on their own time, with the advantage of utilizing the technical manpower of several graduate students in their engineering classes.

Item 2. Wrong! While the rocket powerplant was your responsibility with Reaction Dynamics until you abandoned the project, using natural gas (LNG) as the fuel was my idea from the very beginning.  After all, my research work as Chief Technologist at IGT was on the ignition mechanism of methane, studying radical and ion reactions, important in the ignition and subsequent combustion of natural gas. My frequent conversations with Dr. Henry Linden, Director of IGT, led to his enthusiastically promoting and leading the land speed record sponsorship drive with AGA and its member companies. Of course I was capable of understanding The Blue Flame rocket engine. Following your departure I continued our consulting relationship with Jim McCormick until we finally set the record.

Item 3. Wrong! Our “scientific evaluation” of the rocket performance at the Bonneville Salt Flats was necessarily empirical. After redesigning and fabricating the new “stage two” LNG injectors we validated the theoretical LNG thrust boost from 12,400 lbf to 14,700 lbf (+18.5%) with standing start test runs (#10 and #12) of 447 mph and 557 mph (+15%). Not bad for the first in a series of tuning tests, ultimately resulting in a new world land speed record on our first attempt.

The earlier film frame photo was from the #12 test run. There was some LNG still burning in the exhaust at that point, but we continued to tune the rocket until our final success on runs #23 and #24. Because the film crews left after run #12, we have no film or photo documentation of The Blue Flame’s later runs.

Item 4. Wrong! Jim McCormick continued throughout the project as our consultant on the rocket system. After the original catalyst pack was severely heat damaged, we collaborated on a different design, silver-plated nickel screens replacing the low melting point silver. I procured the nickel screens, developed the plating process in Milwaukee, and applied the protective samarium oxide ceramic coating at a local heat treating plant. One result of the new catalyst was the ability to survive the higher decomposition temperature with 94% HTP. Regarding the plural pronoun “they” (big deal), it was only to agree with Jim’s use of the plural pronoun “we” in the Engineering Design Services Company July 1970 study on LNG flow at the reduced thrust level, required in 1970.

Flow control orifice? Wrong again! Actually, there are some similarities in the way the original 22,000 lbf rocket LNG plumbing system was designed and natural gas appliances used in the home. In the home, natural gas enters the household gas plumbing system through a pressure regulator; supplying a gas range, gas hot water heater, gas furnace, a gas clothes drier, and other gas appliances on the regulated pressure line. Because numerous gas appliances which require different gas flow rates are being supplied from a common source, each appliance requires a gas flow control orifice to regulate its individual needs.

In The Blue Flame’s original LNG plumbing, the fuel was pressurized with helium in the LNG tank, a blow-down system, also a common source, then split into two delivery lines, one to the stage two injectors, the other to the stage three injectors. The flow control orifice controlled the much lower flow rate to the stage two injectors (see page 207 diagram). When the stage three injectors were blocked off for the lower thrust level in 1970, the flow to the stage two injectors was simply controlled directly by the helium pressure regulator. No flow control orifice was required to proportion the flow rate in 1970. Jim and I discussed this when we detuned the rocket to 14,700 lbf, and he recommended using only the stage two (starting system) alone.

BTW – the rocket system flow diagrams, on pages 207 and 210, for the stage two LNG plumbing is wrong, also. It won’t work. You show the stage two LNG feed line drawing from the LNG tank ullage headspace. Nothing there but helium gas. Sort of like your conclusion on the orifice.
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Offline TRRocketman

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2013, 06:52:07 PM »
Good evening, everyone!
Seems like Dick wants to write his book / version of The Blue Flame story right here instead of publishing it in full,  but my dad asked me to post this as his final comment on the matter.  If you are like me and have a day job, I think you will appreciate that!

If you'd like to read more of Ray's story, please do get your copy today! It was a joy to write it with him.  And while I also have reams and reams of paper from the late 60s I won't attach any here since in isolation they are not impressive.
Take care,
Sarah Kasprowicz
http://www.amazon.com/The-Reluctant-Rocketman-Curious-Breaking/dp/0988199475/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384040413&sr=8-1&keywords=the+reluctant+rocketman

FROM RAY DAUSMAN:
I have decided not to waste my time responding further to Dick Keller’s latest round of objections to the Blue Flame story as told by me in “The Reluctant Rocketman”. What began as a discussion of scientific aspects of the story has now changed to science fiction by Dick’s latest comments.The readers of this forum will have to decide for themselves who to believe.

Dick is now “scraping the bottom of the barrel” in his attempt to discredit my telling of the story.

Readers should ask themselves why he started this discussion, which seems to be obsessed with my “faulty memory” and the fact that I was not present at the salt flats during the record runs. I can assure readers that my memory is not impaired and that I did not have to “be there” to know what happened. I was told what was happening by Gary Gabelich  during his visit to me during the record attempts and by  Pete and Leah Farnsworth and Dick Keller himself in the years following the events in question.

I think he has taken offense at my comment in the book that I felt the project was a failure and is still trying to “make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, no matter what it takes."

I commend the Blue Flame crew for setting the record because it was a great achievement.  I have a problem with the way it was achieved.

I give Dana Fuller full credit for the record being set by the Blue Flame. Dana was not a member of the crew and had nothing to do with building the car or the rocket engine. He was a spectator and a photographer during the events at the salt.

On the day before the last day available for record runs, he stepped up and suggested that it might help if he pushed the car with his truck prior to firing the rocket engine to save rocket propellant for the Measured Mile where the crew needed it most. This was his idea and his common sense that saved the day for the Blue Flame. This was not in the plans prior to going to the salt. If it was, the crew could have done this when they first arrived at the salt flats and saved everybody a lot of time and money.

Unfortunately, Dana’s contribution was not mentioned to the press for a long time and all the publicity about the record runs never mentioned his name or contribution. I ask the readers of this forum to consider why something like this could have happened.
One thing I know for sure is that had it not been for Dana, Dick and I would not be having this conversation about who did what. The Blue Flame project would have gone down in the books as just another attempt to set a land speed record that failed.

Ray Dausman




Offline MAYOMAN

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 11:27:44 PM »
Ray,
Your error-filled account of The Blue Flame’s successful World Land Speed Record was a pathetic attempt to transfer 40 years of regret for abandoning the project into an indictment of our sponsors, Pete, and myself.

My initial rebuttal concerned your wrongful assertions in the book regarding the LNG fuel effectiveness in the rocket and the alleged poor performance, only breaking Breedlove’s record by 30 mph.

I have documented my responses to your continually shifting allegations with references, including those obvious errors in your book, and additional supplemental materials I have provided in this forum. As I respond with facts, you change the subjects.

It is obvious to everyone, now, that the “science-fiction” you allege is contained in the pages of “Reluctant Rocketman”.

Your conclusions:
p. 226 – “I believe The Blue Flame would have set a land speed record greater than 800 mph…”
p. 260 – “I consider The Blue Flame an abject failure…”
are dishonest since you were fully aware – from our Proposal to Establish a New World Land Speed Record  submitted to Potential Gas Utility Company Sponsors – that only a subsonic record (“This run will attempt to exceed the present record of 600.601 mph, but not the speed of sound.”) in 1970 was our intent  from the very beginning.

Now, you want to give Dana Fuller full credit for The Blue Flame’s record? WOW!

Again Ray, you, Sarah, and Land  Speed Louse, weren’t there and have your “facts” askew. Pete and I strategized saving a couple of seconds’ power for the top end following run #14. We actually installed the push bar on October 14th.  NOT the day before we set the record as you once again mistakenly state.

It was used during runs #15 through #24. Dana Fuller (former diesel-powered land speed record holder) volunteered to provide the “push” at that point. Post-record PR was all Gary Gabelich and the AGA’s Burson-Marseller Agency. Don’t blame Pete and me for any imagined slight there.

Just credit us for setting a world record (kilometer) that lasted for 27 years! And quit your belly-aching!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:30:27 PM by MAYOMAN »
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velocity

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 03:11:19 AM »
It's clear to me that anyone who disagrees with Keller's version of the The Blue Flame history is to be discredited as his version is the only one that he thinks should be believed.

There were three men responsible for the success of rocket car build and each ought to have his perspective respected.

I walked away from Keller's book project after I discovered he wanted to minimize Farnsworth and Dausman's contribution. After two years of  conducting a great deal of independent research I believe Farnsworth and Dausman played significant, well-documented  roles in the project. 

What I am puzzled about is why Keller persists in public cut downs the other two men.

It is obvious that there are three perspectives and there will be differences of opinion and perception.

Fans of The Blue Flame should also remember it was Gary Gabelich who showed the world the project was sound.

Landspeed Louise

Offline TIIILSR

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2013, 04:25:33 AM »
The book is on my Christmas list. Thanks to ALL that made it happen.

Mike
Mike
Jackpot motorsports

Offline sabat

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2013, 04:40:33 PM »
Wow, drama!  It's almost like there's some ego involved!

I just finished reading "Faster Than Sound: The Quest for the Land Speed Record" by Harvey Shapiro (thanks Joe Amo) and now will start on this book, waiting on my bedside table. 

Dean

Offline MAYOMAN

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 07:53:21 PM »
LSL

There you go again.
I have never attacked, disparaged, or remarked unfavorably on Pete Farnsworth.
We were partners at Reaction Dynamics on The Blue Flame and Honda Hawk projects.
Pete’s mechanical engineering education, drag racing experience, and chassis building skills were essential to the success of The Blue Flame. He also was able to keep the engineering consultants on the right track, translating technical inputs from academia into practical design and construction details, and implementing them.

Did I forget to mention leadership? Pete kept our full-time and part-time team on a tight schedule, solving many technical issues in the 18 months spent building that “rocket ship”.

My initial comments on the Reluctant Rocketman (in another part of this forum) focused only on correcting  two issues in the book, the use of LNG on the record runs and the 700mph maximum speed limitation imposed by the tire supplier (and formally agreed to in our proposal to the gas industry sponsors) for 1970.

You responded by opening this new forum, criticizing me for my impertinence. I have documented my every comment regarding the book, and Ray’s continuing negative responses, with facts.

Now, you continue your silly assertion that I was not willing to share credit with Ray and Pete, stating
“I walked away from Keller's book project after I discovered he wanted to minimize Farnsworth and Dausman's contribution.”

Louise, you know that is not true.
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velocity

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2013, 11:30:25 PM »
Mr. Keller

I stand by my comments 100%

You are free to believe what you like, but I caution you to be honest and forthcoming with land speed racing history when writing it down.


LSL

Offline TrickyDicky

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2013, 09:08:30 AM »
I only know Ray Dausman and Dick Keller from their contributions on this forum, so hope my observations are not way off beam.

When I started reading the various threads about The Blue Flame I found it difficult to believe Ray and Dick were recalling the same events.  It seemed either one of them had to be lying or suffering from the memory lapses that happen to most of us as we get older.  I am now starting to see that they both have valid viewpoints, maybe driven by different perspectives of what is important.

For example, Dick Keller pulls out a couple of conclusions from TRR and uses a sentence from TBF Proposal to suggest they are "dishonest":

...

Your conclusions:
p. 226 – “I believe The Blue Flame would have set a land speed record greater than 800 mph…”
p. 260 – “I consider The Blue Flame an abject failure…”
are dishonest since you were fully aware – from our Proposal to Establish a New World Land Speed Record  submitted to Potential Gas Utility Company Sponsors – that only a subsonic record (“This run will attempt to exceed the present record of 600.601 mph, but not the speed of sound.”) in 1970 was our intent  from the very beginning.

...


But the very next sentence in the Proposal ("Subsequent runs to establish a supersonic record, and to set the record at 1000 mph are considered to be feasible ...") apparently makes it clear that the ultimate goal was to do a lot more than simply beat 600.601 mph.

So the TBF was a success because it set the World Land Speed Record, or a failure because it got nowhere near supersonic or 1000 mph.  You can legitimately argue it both ways.

A bit like saying the Apollo program/programme was a resounding success because it put a man on the Moon.  Or an abject failure because it did not lead to a manned mission to Mars.  :|


Offline MAYOMAN

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 12:09:02 PM »
Tricky Dicky

Your comments on my critique are welcome. Third party interpretation helps me make my argument more clear to the casual observer.

Mentioning “the very next sentence in the Proposal” is helpful, but should be continued farther, to the last phrase: “…but these subsequent runs are not contemplated within the time and cost estimates presented here.”

That is the point I try to make – 1970 was ONLY intended to break Craig Breedlove’s record of 600.601 mph, as proposed from the very beginning. Also, we were required to not exceed 700 mph. We did peak at around 660 mph. Close enough to be considered a resounding success, not an “abject failure”, don’t you think? Pete and I never considered apologizing for setting the world land speed record.

Also, in its 1970 configuration, the rocket motor would have never been able to go much faster than that had everything worked perfectly from the start. The LNG tank was downsized since we were only using the second stage (starting system) LNG injection per discussion with consultant Jim McCormick, purposely limiting the maximum thrust to 14,700 lbf.

Ray always knew both of these things.
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Offline TrickyDicky

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Re: The Reluctant Rocketman - new book on land speed racing
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2013, 09:23:02 AM »
Mayoman,

I hesitate to get involved in a detailed discussion - I know how easy it is for the written word to be misinterpreted.

...

That is the point I try to make – 1970 was ONLY intended to break Craig Breedlove’s record of 600.601 mph, as proposed from the very beginning. Also, we were required to not exceed 700 mph. We did peak at around 660 mph. Close enough to be considered a resounding success, not an “abject failure”, don’t you think?

...

I have no experience of building or running a Land Speed vehicle, so what I think is not really relevant.  But since you asked ...

I do understand the points you are making, particularly about the compromises necessary to achieve a record in 1970.  In my book any team setting the absolute Land Speed Record is a resounding success, no matter how large or small the margin over the previous record, or whether the new record lasts 5 minutes or 50 years.

...

Pete and I never considered apologizing for setting the world land speed record.

...

But I don't understand statements like this, because (as far as I know) nobody has suggested you should apologise.  My point was that it is possible for the same set of facts to be interpreted in more than one way, without one viewpoint being "right" and others "wrong".  In the case of The Blue Flame, it is possible to celebrate the achievements of 1970, whilst simultaneously being disappointed there were no subsequent attempts to reach 700 mph, supersonic, 800 mph, .... whatever goal might have been achievable.