A class issues

[Koncretekid]

Regarding tail section issues, I had an idea to try this year (2013) which never happened.  I had made 5 runs on my APS-PG bike at speeds of 141 to 145 mph, very consistent.  I then removed the fairings to run in the open bike A-PG class (paid an extra $250, went thru tech again, and got a new number mounted), and made four more runs from 123 to 126 mph, again very consistent.  Having another day left, I went to the tech crew to ask if I could put my removable tail piece on and run Time Only.  This would show us a couple of things.

1.) Would the fully enclosed tail out perform the cut-out one?
2.) Would the fully enclosed tail cause any handling problems?

Two questions that everybody in Land Speed Racing (bikes) would like to know.  And with the consistency of which my bike was running, a higher speed or handling problems would probably have been significant.

Well the tech crew had no objection, but I would have to go see Lynnea.  She thought it sounded interesting, but she had to bring in another gentlemen to make the decision.  This person, whose last name definitely wasn't Manning, never actually spoke to me directly (always get your next in command to convey bad news). But Lynnea relayed his decision.  Yes I could run T.O.  But I would have to get a new number issued, go thru Tech inspection for a 3rd time, and of course pay another $250.  Wishing not to make a scene, I refrained from advising him where he could put that extra $250, and I started packing up.

This is why I suggested that we don't really know who is in the driver's seat at the BUB Speed Trials.

"For want of a nail, the Kingdom was lost"

Tom

[sabat]

Beautiful bike Tom. 

Your story reminds me of my former cable company. They believe that they have no competition, so they feel free to price gouge and provide horrible service.

Hopefully someone at AMA/BUB will recognize the need to respect their customers if they hope to survive in the long term.

Dean

[fredvance]

My policy is don't ask, don't tell. This year, at Speedweek, after major traction problems on the first run I felt like the track was not going to get better. I pulled the fairing off and made a bunch of runs naked and had a lot of fun. I love running naked. 

[bak189]

The BUB org. should and has to get some of their sh@@#$t together, It appear the longer they run the event, more the rules change.........I have always found fault with their entry fees.....when you change riders...more money to be paid......the bike should be entered...not each rider......at one time they tried to charge a extra fee for the sidecar passenger.....I had a career counseling with the person involved....no fee...........(I am certain that me pumping thousands of dollars into the sidecar class sponsorship helped resolve this problem)........it appears when more "officials" get involved....more rules and changes on the spot are taking place......................................

        ALWAYS QUESTION AUTHORITY

PS. See.... I don't just find fault with SCTA/BNI...they ALL get my input....................

[Stainless1]

My policy is don't ask, don't tell. This year, at Speedweek, after major traction problems on the first run I felt like the track was not going to get better. I pulled the fairing off and made a bunch of runs naked and had a lot of fun. I love running naked.  

Fred, you are starting to sound like FeRd...
but you are exactly right, and Tom, don't ask don't tell may apply here, it happens all the time, the bike met the safety requirements, if you run over the record and you know you are illegal you just skip the impound part.  

[joea]

...the caveat I would like to mention here....is that running a non-inspected configuration MAY have
some seriously dangerous issues...unbeknownst...to all involved..

ie a guy inspected in open class.....wants to try a fairing he made up....instead of getting a once over
over by tech....he runs it....its not very well mounted and has some other dangerous aspects...to close to the ground
with rider on it...etc....he has an issue on the course....now its a serious matter for the sanctioning body who's insurance is covering
it....

ie...the nitrous bottle that he affixed in a very unsafe manner came off and he ran it over etc....

having at least the reqt to get a look over by tech and their experience may really save someone skin...

a note in log book...trying nitrous...new fairing etc for TO...OK to run...

say someone wants to run TO....get a tech approval and once over....if some concerns it allows for potentially putting
into place a "TIERED RUN" situation....an unapproved body work...allow for incremental runs.....by speed like a license, or
to the 1, to the 2 etc, with a call to stewards or tech, that he has the "xxx" sticker say a "green circle with a 1 scribed in it"
and stewards or tech alerted we have a check pass to the one...heads up........

or in some cases a simple "TO" indicated on bike....and a call to stewards or tech..and timing ...."heads up TO vehicle"

I think the "TIERD RUN" situation could/should  be employed more now regardless for certain concerning situations/configurations

a certain colored sticker with a number on it as mentioned above, alerts timing and stewards, then a trip back to tech, allows for them to
gain valuable data, perhaps for their own log books, the veh log book, a call from line to tech, hey veh #253 is coming up with a second green sticker and a 2 on it..?....a report back from tech...yep our log shows...we cleared them to the 2.....

there has been more and more mishaps.....i know we have tiered licensing takes care of most...but there are ocassions with respect
to tires not rated for speeds running...etc...and perhaps in TO configurations or just unfamiliar/concerning configurations that may well
be best managed with more controlled scrutiny.....a win win for sanctioning body and team....

[nrhs sales]

Joe,
No log books, tiers or tire rules at Bubs

[joea]

is that a "good" thing..or...is that "best practices"...for all involved..?..

im thinking of how this best facilitates safety-and legality

with or without log books for entrants....tech may have or want to have there own as a means
of tracking.....

and i think we all have seen situations that would be best served with tiers....

im not saying there should be a new fee....just a means of ensuring highest safety...

running whatever ya want to try whenever ya want to try it.....may not be best when considering
how preventable mishaps tie up courses....result in injuries....and many not provide best ground
for sanctioning body to stand on....

plus we have class designation mandatory displayed on veh's for good reason...it doesnt help legitamacy of sanctioning
body to have folks trying things illegal for displayed class, being seen and photoged clearly illegal....and line through and
a TO designation would alleviate that......and have added imperative benefit of a tech look over and consideration of safety...

it adds also to the data base of knowledge for the tech folks who can use that data for future decision making...

[Koncretekid]

The new  bike number I'm OK with.  The re-inspection; if they feel that's really necessary.  The extra $250 was the straw that broke the camel's back, this time.  I probably should have tried to get one of the tech guys, Drew or Rex, to more or less sponsor me that allowing me to run with the tailpiece would provide some valuable info.  Not being a high horsepower bike (45hp), it was not likely that the tailpiece could create a major problem which might happen with a few hundred hp .  So really, I'm just ranting here and I have to agree with Joe that the organization has to protect itself.  But if you read the RWB rules, they are already exposing themselves to liability for people bringing about any contraption they want to.  Next year, I think I'll try to get tech to vow for me so I won't have to pay extra for the free information they, as well as I, will gain.

[joea]

koncrete...i hear ya.......rants are important imo to help  understand levels of passion and frustration

frankly Stainless and or Fred....and likely koncrete....function on as high a lsr tech savvy level as there is in this world...and
would be the "go to" icons for opinion and expertise....and their ability to put a trackworthy bike
on course is as good as it gets...there are far more...that simply "need" the tech's "eye" and stamp
of approval to be "course worthy".......

this is just a tangent to the original discussion...as it came up, opinion flowed,:)..as the topic has some attention
and it likely wont hurt anyone, and may help...

scta has stickered folks, and put out a watch coordinated with course officials in certain circumstances, i just spoke here about
a potential modified scenario that came to mind, an extra radio call or two, a once over by tech all take abit of time, a course down for many minutes to hours is extremely painful for all, none as awful as injuries....

i mean when running zr tires for instance at scta well over the manuf. speed rating, a trip through tech is req to
keep an eye on situation after any 200 plus runs, adds to tech data base and knowledge base in moving forward...

[Cereal KLR]

I asked BUB on Jan 3rd if they anticipated any rules changes for 2014. This is the response.

BUB Motorcycle Speed Trials.

 "We'll be having our final rule meeting when I'm back in Ohio for the AMA Champions banquet. We are clarifying the M and A definitions but no other major changes planned. anticipate the rules to be out around the end of Jan."

So stay tuned if you run A or M classes.

[sabat]

Thanks for the information KLR, great news. -Dean

[grumm441]

i mean when running zr tires for instance at scta well over the manuf. speed rating, a trip through tech is req to
keep an eye on situation after any 200 plus runs, adds to tech data base and knowledge base in moving forward...

I didn't think they did that anymore.
It came in after they new "racing" tyre rules and they ran with it for one year. It was an interesting experiment and determined that it was mainly one guy and the soft and medium compound tyres that were available at the lake that were a problem.
G

[Seldom Seen Slim]

You're right in that they don't require bikes to check in at Tech after each and every 200+ run now.  That was a one (or two?) year mission to make sure the tires were doing okay at the speeds they were being run.  However - last year as I went through inspection on the ZX12 I was invited to stop in for a tire check after most any run, as they were (supposedly) doing for other racers, too.  Still expanding their knowledge base.

Then there was two years ago when I chunked a tire - they sure were interested in seeing that one.  How many of youse guys have ever chunked - a FRONT tire?  We still don't know how that happened, especially after a few dozen runs on the tire.  The tire was from Nate Jones -- and now he's seen it and has it back.

[maj]

Slim you  Howard and I that i know of
just a matter of interest, what brand ? mine was a race takeoff GPA
Pretty sure Howards was a wet weather slick