Author Topic: A class issues  (Read 58209 times)

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Offline nrhs sales

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A class issues
« on: September 10, 2013, 10:53:53 AM »
I know Fireman Jim's team had some issues with what the AMA constitutes as an A bike and I believe there was a V-rod with similar issues.  Did anybody else have this problem and wasn't allowed to run in A because their frame was "too stock"?

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 11:33:16 AM »
If the frame looks anything like a conventional motorcycle it runs in modified.

Quote
SPECIAL CONSTRUCTION (A) CLASS
This class is for purpose built motorcycles.

If you were going to build a motorcycle from scratch for A class wouldn't you take advantage of the wide open rules and build something that is more aero than a conventional motorcycle? I'm pretty sure that's what the tech inspectors are thinking. Most of the bikes running A class look like motorcycles.

Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
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Offline nrhs sales

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 11:58:52 AM »
Quote
If the frame looks anything like a conventional motorcycle it runs in modified.

Pretty sure that is how the AMA is reading the rules this year as well but there were several bikes that were not allowed to run as they had stock frames with just long swingarms and pegs moved back that used to put them in A but this year AMA would not let them run.

The rule did not affect us as we run in Modified but there were a few very angry folks this year at Bubs.

Offline maj

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 12:26:28 AM »
Not got the rule book in front of me at the moment but i was one of the affected by the change in interpretation
Rules stated as i read them that the design is open, no limits, lower or upper nothing specific on frames,unlike the m/mps class that is very specific.

my bike is most definitely outside m or mps on many points, but my frame is mostly stock , so all of a sudden there is an area that fits nowhere

there was a lot of bikes affected both those picked up in the initiall tech inspection and even worse for all involved , rider and the tech guys to disallow a qualifying run
Personally i figure i can work with any rule book and run to whatever specs i am presented with, but was initially a little annoyed with such a change in attitude and no warning
lets work to get it better next time
 

Offline sabat

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 09:14:45 AM »
I understand that arbitrary rule interpretation happens in every sanction, but wow. Does not make me eager to run at Bubs.  Dean

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 04:32:32 PM »
BUB is the sponsor.............AMA and FIM interpret the rules. I agree the 'A' class frame interpretation is confusing and misleading.  If you don't qualify for the M or MPS class because of wheelbase and footpeg mods, you should be placed into the A-class..........regardless of how stock or original-appearing your basic frame is.
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 06:55:38 PM »
Quote
If you don't qualify for the M or MPS class because of wheelbase and footpeg mods, you should be placed into the A-class..........regardless of how stock or original-appearing your basic frame is.

I disagree. If it looks like stock then conform to the M class rules. If you want to run A class then start from scratch and build something that doesn't look like stock.
There is nothing in the rule book that says that you can run if you don't meet the class criteria. I feel sorry for the guys that showed up and couldn't run.

Quote
CHAPTER 1
COMPETITION PROCEDURES
1. A. CLASSIFICATION
The participant is responsible for the entry of the motorcycle into its correct class.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline RidgeRunner

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 08:43:07 PM »
    What makes the frame any different than a set of forks,tire,wheel or brake?  Case, jug, head, side cover? Clutch, shift, or brake levers?  Fuel or oil tank? Where does it end?  Will this mean that all visible parts must be scratch built to legally run in the A classes?

                     Ed

   

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 01:36:45 AM »
The rules have said for some time that the A class is for special construction bikes.  This is the first time, to my knowledge, it has been enforced.  It sure wasn't in 2012.  A look through Scooter's 2012 BUB Speed Trials book is very informative. 

Offline Gu11ett

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 07:32:06 AM »
The rules state Special Constructions class is for purpose built motorcycles., and is unlimited in design. With two exceptions: Rear wheel drive only, and the seat cannot be above/behind a vertical line through the rear axle. I do not see anything about having to use a custom frame.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 06:39:31 PM »
Dean.......and others..........I'm still rather new to this venue and very willing to listen to a good explanation of the rules. To me, when the rules say you are responsible for entering your bike in the correct class, and the tech guys say NO, it means you have to pay the additional fee to run in the CORRECT class for your bike. I can't believe anyone would intend an interpretation of the rules to mean you can't compete just because of your choice of frame design.

BTW.......I have considered purchasing a bolt-on hard-tail or sprung-hub rear frame-section for my Triumph Cub and run in the A-class. My basic 'frame' would remain stock.
2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 136.6 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 143.005 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc M-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 139.85 mph
2018 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CF HONDA CB750 sohc - 144.2025 mph

Chassis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre

Offline wobblywalrus

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2013, 10:16:12 AM »
"Bikes that meet the requirements for the Modified Class by definition cannot also run in the "A" special construction class during the same meet."  See page 30.

It looks like a bike with a production frame could run in the A class if it was not run in M class during the same meet.  The word "also" is the key.   

Offline Stainless1

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2013, 10:47:28 AM »
sounds like bad interpretation of the rules by some of the inspection team.  I find it hard to believe Drew made the call that a frame is too stock to run in A. 
Seems they may be trying to run off some of the competitors.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline joea

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2013, 11:11:12 AM »
"no limits"...on the frame/chassis ...but the aero has to be chopped off at the rear exposing much of the wheel...like the MPS class...?...

Offline nrhs sales

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Re: A class issues
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2013, 12:16:43 PM »
it will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Would be sad if it caused folks to not participate next year at Bubs.