Author Topic: Advice please: Trailer for lakester  (Read 15583 times)

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Offline entropy

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2013, 10:42:12 AM »
Sumner,
thanks for your thoughts!

Yup, it'll be tight, probably have to enter from the top.

We are just "cogitating" at this point, but thinking of putting the motor front to back, drive shaft off the transmission output shaft.

I mean, how hard could it be???? LOLOLOLOL.

Karl

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2013, 11:05:02 AM »
We are just "cogitating" at this point, but thinking of putting the motor front to back, drive shaft off the transmission output shaft.

I mean, how hard could it be???? LOLOLOLOL.

Probably not that difficult Karl. If you Google "Dwarf Cars" you'll find a company in the Phoenix area that builds these cars for oval track and supplies all the parts. They run the engines with the crank running parallel to the centerline of the car back to a Toyota rear end.

Pete

Offline Sumner

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2013, 02:42:33 PM »
We are just "cogitating" at this point, but thinking of putting the motor front to back, drive shaft off the transmission output shaft.

I mean, how hard could it be???? LOLOLOLOL.

Probably not that difficult Karl. If you Google "Dwarf Cars" you'll find a company in the Phoenix area that builds these cars for oval track and supplies all the parts. They run the engines with the crank running parallel to the centerline of the car back to a Toyota rear end.

Pete

Pete I looked that that option with the lakester but didn't like the fact that gear ratios for those rear-ends are limited although they did have one tall gear rear but only one at that time.  Then I considered coming off the trans-output shaft with the adapter to a jack shaft where I could then run sprockets/chain over to another shaft going back to the rear-end.  That all started getting complicated and more HP loss so finally ended up with chain drive to the rear-end but the car is a rear engine car so no problem.

Not saying you can't run a MC engine up front but before considering it I'd really get a good approach nailed down and we are in a sport where final gear choices are important, and even more so with a small motor.  I'd be interesting from hearing from those that have done this and how they feel about the results,

Sum

Offline BHR301

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2013, 03:13:42 PM »
You might look into running a GM 7.5" rear axle, lots of ratios, easy to find and reasonably cheap.
If I remember correctly Barkdoll/Hawley had a 7.5" in their Suzuki GSXR1000 powered S10 pickup.

Bill
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 03:17:21 PM by BHR301 »

Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2013, 03:34:07 PM »
I wouldn't worry about the Toyota rear end. You could run whatever you wanted. The important part is the adaption to turn the engine from an East/West orientation with chain drive to North/South orientation with shaft drive.

Pete

Offline entropy

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2013, 04:55:39 AM »
Pete & Sumner & BHR301,
thanks much for the info!
the dwarf car tip certainly helps with MC engine/driveshaft parts, looks like Suzuki 1000's in dwarf cars is very commonly done.

Being a motorcyle guy, I am certainly concerned with gearing possibilities/limitations.  I believe I heard Smiley say the blue CC currently a 370+/- rear end in it now, but i don't mind at all reconfiguring the rear axle to GM 7.5" or whatever.  It's great to get this info.

I just now spent an hour talking to Scott Horner about destroking a Busa from 1300 to 998cc. As always, he is FULL of info, he is building one of those currently. 
Seems like everything is doable, just takes too much time and too much money.
Hey, this is just like like my bikes!!!!

Offline Sumner

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2013, 11:26:01 AM »
..... I believe I heard Smiley say the blue CC currently a 370+/- rear end in it now, but i don't mind at all reconfiguring the rear axle to GM 7.5" or whatever....

If you knew exactly which gear would be the perfect gear then the GM would work, but if you stay above a 2.47 rear gear ford would be much easier to do since you just change the center section out and could have a couple different ones and you don't have to deal with the 'c'-clip eliminators.  The GM are a lot more work if you want to use multiple ratios.

I don't like the circle track quick change for cars running much over 225 due to their low ring/pinion ratios and the very high pinion speeds that can result, but for your application I'd look at them since you might want to make very small gearing changes to optimize the speed.  A little more money up front for a used one but gear sets are not expensive and could be changed quickly on the salt.  

The reason I was going to stay away form this approach was that if you can set up a car with chain drive and you are just changing sprockets for gear changes that can be very cheap and easy to do.

If you set the car up with no rear suspension you could easily run the motor up front chain geared to a long jackshaft that went back to the rear end and have a sprocket back there on the rear-end pinion snout.  Run a fixed rear-end gear and fine tune with the sprockets on the jackshaft at one end or the other.  Some HP loss but maybe something to look at.  

Use the motorcycle spreadsheets I have to play with gearing...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html

... and if you use the car rear-end just change the final sprocket tooth count to get the rear-end ratio that you would be using,

Sum
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 12:19:31 PM by Sumner »

Offline entropy

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2013, 12:04:02 PM »
Sum,
thanks much for taking the time to post all that very helpful info.
The more we know going in, the better :cheers:
karl

Offline Kiwi Paul

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2013, 10:05:20 PM »
Sumner...The Simca has a Monza/Skyhawk/Astre 7.5 style rearend with 8 inch Ford Axle Ends. The spline is the same..so it has 8 inch style axles. The 3.70 gear may work well for a Bike powerplant. Not sure of other ratios, though. 3.42 comes to mind, but I never checked any other ratio out when we ran the car, as it worked pretty well. Karl..Great to talk to you and Don on Sunday...keep me in the loop.. :-D

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 12:26:31 AM »
you can pick up a GM  Torsen diffs in the 2 and the 3 series available for them used off eba if no where else
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline entropy

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 06:13:47 AM »
Kiwi Paul & Sparky,

Thanks for the info!
I plugged 3.70 into my bike rpm/gear/mph calculator and came up with extreme drag racing gearing.
hmmmm...
Probably excel is broken on my laptop (its a Mac) :-D
or I don't have the car's tire circumference right.

I'll figure it out

Karl

Offline Joe Timney

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 06:50:52 AM »
Karl,
If you are looking into a Quick Change, consider a Winters 7 inch. Ratios as low as 2.25. I can fix you up with one.
Joe Timney
Retired President of ECTA
President of Delaware Chassis Works
President of FIREFOX Fire Suppression System
www.delawarechassisworks.com

Offline SPARKY

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 08:11:29 AM »
That rear has3.73 aparently-- 3.42 3.23 available  and  with a 2 series carrier 308 2.73 2.56 2.41 2.28 2.14
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline entropy

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 09:51:03 AM »
Sparky,
ah.... a 2 series carrier...
That's the part i was missing.  Seems it would be essential for a bike motor without using sprockets.

Joe,
I appreciate the offer, but so far we haven't committed to the CC.
I LOVE the shape of that lil car but we are still considering options.  It is very tight for us TFA members.  Doable, but very tight.

Karl

Offline Sumner

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Re: Advice please: Trailer for lakester
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 11:07:44 AM »
.....I LOVE the shape of that lil car but we are still considering options.  It is very tight for us TFA members.  Doable, but very tight.  Karl



It is a beautiful car and ....



..... I'm not knocking your body size, but put on the newer larger helmets, a fire suit and a full cage and I think that car might not be fun or easy to get in and out of.  A roof exit might be possible but even there with the steering column and the top of the cage that might not really be an option.  Maybe look at a rear engine modified roadster.  That would solve a lot of these problems along with driving the rear with the MC engine.  The class is now a lot more competitive than a few years ago but is basically a lakester with a body which was what you were looking at before,

Sum