Off the Shelf Front Spindle and Hub

[TheSteelMan23]

Does anyone know of any off the shelf front spindles and hubs that are available. I am designing an inline front end and need to have the parts on hand so that I can get the proper measurements. I have been researching as much as I can and have come across the Anglia and early Ford spindles, but have been having a hard time trying to find hubs that are available for them. I would like to use Winter's Performance front spindles but can't find good hubs for those either. Speedway Engineering makes hubs that would be perfect for me, but I can't find a good king pin style spindle to put them on. I can either find the spindle or the hub, but I guess I can't have them both together...

I also really need to keep this as parts that are readily available. Due to my budget I can not dump money into having custom hubs or spindles machined.

[Peter Jack]

You're going to be looking at something custom because any of those have king pin inclination built in and if your wheels are going to be one behind the other you can't have KPI. Your front end geometry is going to be more like that of a motorcycle where there is no sideways inclination of the pivot. That's the only way that your steering will work correctly. Furthermore be sure when you do the design there is no scrub radius. This from a guy who normally advises a little scrub radius in a conventional front end.

Good luck!

Pete

[TheSteelMan23]

Please correct me if I’m wrong but I have been under the impression that the KPI isn't an issue because I am going to bring the spindles in from opposite sides so to have a sort of "cancelling effect" on each other. One of the reasons I need to get parts on hand is so that I can calculate wheel offset so that I can minimize my scrub. I believe there are a couple front ends that are running right now that have this very scenario, but it's quite possible I'm missing something

[Peter Jack]

There may be, but I'm not familiar with them. On a conventional front end with conventional caster and KPI the inside wheel pushes down and the outside wheel lifts going through a corner. On the outside wheel the two partially offset each other while on the inside wheel the effect is magnified. You're heading into a really complex area where it would probably be easier to build a custom spindle. If you look at some of the stock car spindles for short track late models you'll see that they present a fairly simple challenge to build with what ever configuration you want.

Pete

[Podunk]

PJ
If there is no KPI does that mean the kingpin is 90 deg to the ground looking from the front of the car? To get 0 scrub radius does the centerline of the kingpin and the centerline of the tire tread have to be on the same plane?

Terry

[Peter Jack]

Terry, you have a complete grasp of the theory!!! The thing to remember is that theory should be proven with testing which is the only way to back up the theory with fact.

Pete

[Sumner]

PJ
If there is no KPI does that mean the kingpin is 90 deg to the ground looking from the front of the car? To get 0 scrub radius does the centerline of the kingpin and the centerline of the tire tread have to be on the same plane?

Terry

Terry, you have a complete grasp of the theory!!! ...Pete

So for all of that to happen the wheel is going to have to have a lot of offset depending on the width of the hub that has to have some width for two bearings?

Interesting, I've seen but never studied these frontends,

Sum

[TheSteelMan23]

I agree with the thinking on the wheel offset. It is going to have to have the mounting point almost out to the bead of the wheel for it to have proper scrub. Depending on which spindles I am able to use of course

[kiwi belly tank]

KPI is not a problem with the type of front end you are planning but you will need zero scrub.
Betsy (Al Teague) was set up this way but we loaded it into the bottom stops to prevent rise & the suspension was torsion bar.
Anglia spindles are too puny for a liner. Depending on how much liner you're planning on building, flathead ford style or 1/2 ton ford PU with the split axle front end 79 & earlier I believe. Both these have a forged axle that is weldable so you could use that as well.
If you go the flathead way, beware there are aftermarket axles that are cast.
I think the Ranger might have had the twin I beam too.
If you build this type of liner you will be limited with what you can do at the rear, this is a three point vehicle.
  Sid.

[Richard 2]

Sid, would you please explain what you mean by; "but we loaded it into the bottom stops to prevent rise"
Thanks Richard

[TheSteelMan23]

Thanks for the input Sid, I was hoping you would offer your opinion on this since you are very knowledgeable about these types of front ends. I have made some changes to my design to go from four wheel drive to just run two wheel drive and I am going to use a motorcycle based powertrain with no suspension. I'm keeping it very simple at this point. I want to get some time on the salt and then possibly build something different quite a few years down the road after I have some more experience. I will do some looking into the spindles you recommended and see what I can come up with.

[SPARKY]

If you want to keep eliminate the actual scrubing during the turn put a repeater between the two axles so you can keep the two steering circles concentric  usually you are better off with the rear tire having a slightly tighter turning radius---I would love for Sid to comment on their experience mine is with the 441 Liner

[kiwi belly tank]

Sid, would you please explain what you mean by; "but we loaded it into the bottom stops to prevent rise"
Thanks Richard

Sure Richard.
We had adjustable stops under the axles to be able to set the load on each front wheel to counteract the tire growth difference between the rear (drive) tires & the steer tires. Steer tires were 24" Firestones & on the rear we ran everything from 28" 700x18 Firestones all the way up to some 35" monsters from Art Arfons.
The axles were 10" long & swung from opposite sides of the chassis with torsion bars. That in it's self would have induced radical camber change without the stops plus Al & I both believe there is no desire to have an LSR vehicle unload the suspension.
We had no difference on the turning circle between the front & rear & ran the same two tires for years.
The front tires were not actually in line with each other, they were staggered. The rear one was swung from the right with the wheel  on the left & the front one was opposite.
Betsy always ran like she was on rails other than one time Al ran over some space junk & cut a front tire.
  Sid.

[Peter Jack]

Just to clarify Sid, you're saying you were using short swing axles similar to what Ford trucks used at the front for a fair while, and then limited the travel. That would certainly solve the problem of a tall spindle and trying to package it within the wheel.

Thanks for the info. Understanding others' experiences always helps when trying to sort out something new. It also points out that there's very little that's actually new.

Pete

[SPARKY]

The The Desert Rose uses a walking beam with no spring other than the tires--shocks required--  it responds to tire pressure changes to keep it straight but when right it tracks very straight