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Author Topic: Aluminum wheel and lug nut tech question  (Read 2298 times)
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ronnieroadster
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« on: August 23, 2013, 06:28:09 PM »

 The wheels I plan on running on my lakester are aluminum factory production Ford held down by a tapered lug nut I was planing on holding the wheels on by using one inch hex lug nuts. The wheels are the ones used for the spare tires on the Mustang GT they are spun aluminum disks with a series of holes around the outer face and are completely welded to the aluminum rim from the factory. 
  The studs I use presently are long so adding a steel plate above the lug nuts is possible. But adding this plate and five more nuts above the existing nuts could possibly add a balance problem at speed. Is that the proper way to mount these aluminum wheels? I'm a bit confused as to how to place a steel washer under the hold down nuts.    huh
 Ronnieroadster
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Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
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 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
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Stainless1
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 10:04:49 AM »

RR, more info required... where do these wheels register? since it has tapered lugnuts, I will guess it registers on the hub... if that is true, then you should be able to clamp it with the steel ring. 

Can't say I've seen anyone use the "adding this plate and five more nuts above the existing nuts" route... the steel plate is reinforcement for the AL wheel to give the lug nuts more surface retention on the AL.
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
ronnieroadster
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 01:50:51 PM »

Stainless the front wheels do not register on the hub they locate by the studs. Would it be legal to use large steel washers under the lug nuts?  My thought would be to make washers that have the correct taper to register on the face of the wheel and then have the taper for the lug nut to register on. I'm sure using the lath I could make such a washer in the proper thickness for the added support.
    Ronnieroadster 
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Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
xxobuick
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 01:21:30 PM »

I have had the same questions for the past year, and still don't have a correct answer from everyone.  I will tell you this though, There are multiple guys that run tapered lug nuts, then a plate on top of that, then 5 more nuts.  It satisfies the rule, because no where in the rule does it state you cannot do this.  From my understanding the rule is in place for thin, 2 piece wheels that are made to have FLAT washers and FLAT nuts, like the original centerlines.  I will also say there are a "few" cars that get passed by tech that have cast wheels, with a conical seat lug nut only system.  We ended up having to make the wheels "hub-centric" and running a 1/4" steel plate over the tapered lug nut holes. 
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Steve Walters
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 02:46:01 PM »

I have had the same questions for the past year, and still don't have a correct answer from everyone.  I will tell you this though, There are multiple guys that run tapered lug nuts, then a plate on top of that, then 5 more nuts.  It satisfies the rule, because no where in the rule does it state you cannot do this.  From my understanding the rule is in place for thin, 2 piece wheels that are made to have FLAT washers and FLAT nuts, like the original centerlines.  I will also say there are a "few" cars that get passed by tech that have cast wheels, with a conical seat lug nut only system.  We ended up having to make the wheels "hub-centric" and running a 1/4" steel plate over the tapered lug nut holes. 

I tried that , but could not get my wheels hub centric, with all the different applications of wheels, it is hard to bring each situation into the realm of commen sense with the rule book wording.  My particular wheels use a conical seat tapered bulge nut, the bulge is .978" thick, the wheel is 3/4 inch thick at the tapers, and the Manufacturer will only recommend the tapered bulge nuts for mounting.  When presented to tech at SW this was Ok'ed by Kiwi Steve.  There where others using the same wheels and lugs, but, like I said not all applications are the same.  Pictures, and tech. info, should be submitted to SCTA, for approval.

  I used 1/4" washers for 4 years with 1" lug nuts, putting on the tapered nuts first and then remove them one at a time to put the washers and 1" nuts on, never felt safe doing it this way, because all you have is about an 1/8" of center X 5 for the wheels, and all the rest is just clamping force.     

Steve     
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ronnieroadster
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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 06:44:57 PM »

 Thanks for the input guys. I have a call in to Kiwi Steve asking for guidance.
 I have been thinking of a way to make tapered spacers with the same taper as the wheel to go below the steel 1/4 inch thick washers. How about taking 1/2 inch lug nuts and drilling the threads out of them I would measure the thread diameter which is a bit under 1/2 inch I would open the hole with very little clearance. Next using a cut off tool in the lath I would cut the now drilled out lug nut short leaving maybe 1/8 inch of the hex. Next I can make 1/4 inch thick steel washers out of bar stock to which I would weld the tapered spacer.
    In the face of the washer I would machine the same taper as the face of the wheel. This way the rear of the washer would locate onto the wheel correctly and the lug nut used to hold the washer in place would seat correctly into the face of the washer. But how large in diameter should the washer be?
   Heck it should only take a couple days to do this or maybe a week considering I would need at least 20 washers. What's a little more work!  cheers
 Ronnieroadster
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 06:47:32 PM by ronnieroadster » Logged

Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
Stan Back
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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 08:00:17 PM »

Have you ever thought about just buying steel wheels?  For less than $300 you could become compliant and safe.
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ronnieroadster
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 08:25:50 PM »

  Hi Stan
   The wheels have been used by others running on the salt at well over 240 MPH read that in another post so they would be compliant and safe. The cost to make the 1/4 inch washers would only be my time since I have material the machines and the talent to do the job. Plus I have five wheels so theres no added expense there.  Having built my lakester with very little 1-800 parts I enjoy these projects its a good way to pass the time away. smiley
  Ronnieroadster
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Working in the shop I use the 'F' word a lot. No not that word these words Focus and Finish go Fast and Flathead Ford!
 ECTA  XF/BGRMR Record 179.8561
 LTA    XF/BGRMR  Record 200.921 First  Ford Flathead Roadster to hit 200 MPH July 2018
 SCTA  XF/BGRMR Record 195.650
 SCTA  XXF/BGRMR Record 216.131 plus a Red Had
"Life Memeber of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club"
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