Author Topic: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1  (Read 15828 times)

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Offline desotoman

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ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« on: August 22, 2013, 07:07:54 PM »
Just a heads up if you were thinking of submitting a Rule Change, you only have a little over a week to get it into the SCTA. Deadline is September 1 2013.


Tom G.


Online link to form: http://www.scta-bni.org/Forms/rulechg2010.html

SCTA Rulebook Change Request:

The SCTA has a formal and specific rule change process in place. Below is a simplified summary of that process.

    Rule change requests can be submitted to the SCTA office by using the online form, by email, and may also be sent to the SCTA office via the USPS (snail mail)
    The Rules coordinator reviews the request for completeness and fowards the request to the appropriate Tech Chairman and vehicle committee for review and recommended action. There are committees for each class of vehicle (i.e.: Coupes & Sedans, Special Construction, Motorcycles, etc) and for technical.
    At the November or December SCTA Board meeting, all rules committee approved rule change requests are individually presented to and voted on by the SCTA board. The board approved changes are posted on the SCTA website and submitted to the Rulebook Coordinator for inclusion in the next years rulebook.

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Offline Dakin Engineering

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 09:55:03 PM »
Good news!

Sam
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Offline trimmers

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 06:19:42 AM »
I submitted two such requests earlier this week.  They wouldn't actually change any requirements, but just clarify how things are written in the rule book.  I've already been contacted by three different SCTA officials, so we'll see what happens. 
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Offline Steve Walters

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 03:13:59 PM »
I think I got the lug nut non-ferris wheels item straight at SW, with out trying to change the wording.  Thanks, Nathan, Kiwi Paul, and Kiwi Steve.

Steve
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Offline Kiwi Paul

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 11:42:02 PM »
Steve--It was great to meet and talk with you (and Jasper...) this year. I`m happy to have learnt some stuff as a result of our consult, and happy to talk to you at Salt talks.... :cheers:

Offline dw230

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 11:35:02 AM »
At last night's board meeting Mike Manghelli asked that any submitters not sit on their submission until the last minute on Sept. 1st. He has 3 car and 3 bike changes so far.

DW
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 12:37:51 PM »
Thanks for the heads up, Tom!

That link doesn't work for me-I get a 404 error.

I did find it at this link:

http://fs16.formsite.com/sctabni/form1/index.html
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

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http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline desotoman

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 03:28:43 PM »
Thanks for the heads up, Tom!

That link doesn't work for me-I get a 404 error.

I did find it at this link:

http://fs16.formsite.com/sctabni/form1/index.html

Thanks Buddy, The SCTA site has done that to me a couple of times this month, first time was the link to the audio for speedweek.

Thanks for posting the new link.

Tom G.

I love the USA. How much longer will we be a free nation?

Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers.

The rational person lets verified facts form or modify his opinion.  The ideologue ignores verified facts which don't fit his preconceived opinions.

Offline Stan Back

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 06:43:18 PM »
Getting kinda late for it -- but I think it might be a good adea to present the changes on this forum, for a number of reasons . . .

Might help build support for an idea.

Might help clarify the proposal.

Might result that the rule is already covered somewhere else, etc.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline 38flattie

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2013, 07:27:25 PM »
Stan, good idea!
 
Here is the change I proposed, for what it's worth. I'm hoping SCTA clubs will support me on it!



Rule Definition: 4.R, Page 44

Rulebook issue:
 
 4.R A hood scoop is a functional air intake device used on full body, un-blown vehicles, where allowed. No part of a forward facing hood scoop can extend forward of the leading edge of the hood, be more than 11" above the surface of the hood at the centerline or extend past the trailing edge of the hood more than 11" at the centerline.
 
I believe a scoop on a blown car should be allowed 11" above the blower intake, not the hood, so to have the same advantages as on an unblown car.


Desired outcome:

To give blown cars the same advantage/disadvantage of 11" clearance over the hood or air intake, depending on which is higher.

Reason for change:

Unblown cars are allowed a hood scoop 11" in height over the hood. A blown car often has an intake sticking 6' or so out of the hood. I believe blown cars should receive full benefit of 11" over the intake, in that case, not the hood. If a blown car has a scoop taller than 11", in Comp Coupe, instead of the 11" behind trailing edge of the hood, it must end at the cowl. I believe blown cars should receive the same advantage/disadvantage of 11" clearance of whatever is higher-the hood or air intake.

Any side effects:

Side effects will be innovation, restyling, and more efficient hood scoops.

Desired rewording:

A hood scoop is a functional air intake device used on full body, blown and un-blown vehicles, where allowed. No part of a forward facing hood scoop can extend forward of the leading edge of the hood, be more than 11" above the surface of the hood at the centerline or extend past the trailing edge of the hood more than 11" at the centerline. Blown cars are allowed 11" above hood, or air intake, whichever is higher.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 07:29:11 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline dw230

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 11:41:31 AM »
Why does a blown car need a hood scoop when you are bringing your own  air with you? Sounds like an aero device to me. Different classes, different rules.

DW
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Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth

Offline 38flattie

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 11:57:40 AM »
Dan, our hood scoop is sized specifically for the amount of air we need.

Granted, a scoop gives better aero than just the blower sticking through the hood, but isn't the point of what we do is to get the best aero, so as to achieve the best speed possible?

Dan, do you really believe that unblown cars only use the scoops for air intake? If that were truly the case, the wouldn't be able to run within 1/2" of the windshield, directing air over the top of the car, and reducing their CD.

Dan, for the sake of argument, let's assume you are right, and it's truly only an aero device (it isn't).

Since racers are always trying to find a legal, better way to improve speeds, the aero aspect by itself should be reason enough for support.

There have been blown cars in the past, that were able to take advantage of this-Hooley's comes to mind.


I'm asking for support from ALL of the SCTA clubs and their members. Please ask questions with your concerns about this proposal, and post your opinions.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 12:37:20 PM by 38flattie »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 01:09:08 AM »
This hood scoop thing is a nightmare.  There are multiple problems.

First, most "scoops" aren't scoops at all.  They're covers and they're covering the parts of the engine that stick through the hood.  The requirement that they be a 1/2" off the windshield is to make sure that those "scoops" are actually somewhat functional in that they at least allow some air to get to the engine.  Any rear facing "scoop" that physically touches or even bolts to the windshield is not a scoop; it's an aero device.  It's only purpose is to direct air.  A true hood scoop should solely be used to deliver intake air to the engine but some savvy (or maybe cunning) racers have conned their way into running aero devices disguised as hood scoops.  Aero devices are limited to the rules of each particular class.  I can certainly imagine these types of aero devices being allowed in Comp Coupe/Mod Sport but not in the any other classes.

Second, why should blown cars be limited from having a real true hood scoop?  Since when did all blowers stick out of the hood?  There are plenty of turbocharged and centrifugally supercharged "blown" cars that would like some fresh air too.  There was an early Mustang at Speed Week with a Paxton blower that had a rear facing cowl induction hood scoop.  THAT'S illegal??  Really?

As best I can tell, the hood scoop definition is written now such that it lends towards hood scoops actually being functional air intake devices and not aero devices.  I think the mix up is the fact that it says hood scoops are only for unblown cars which is ridiculous IMHO.  Hood scoops should be hood scoops... and do they really need to go to the roof?  11" above whatever is highest?  That's a bit much.  You'll have hood scoops that are taller than the cars themselves!  I think Hooley got in and out before the hammer got dropped and may in fact wind up being the genesis of this whole deal.  Did you notice that there was no hood scoop on his car this year?

Stepping away from ten foot tall hood scoops for a moment... what's even more concerning to me are roadsters that have head rest fairings that completely cover the roll cage.  That's pushing "head rest fairings" a little far.  I can see them being okay on a mod roadster but on a regular roadster, it's an abomination.     
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 01:29:29 AM »
Speaking of hood scoops.... I heard your hood scoop needed a hood scoop. :-o



This things got two hood scoops... well only one really.  I'm guessing the forward facing one delivers air to the engine and the rear facing one that's as tall as the top of the car is the aero device.  Is streamlining ahead of the cowl allowed in GT?  Or is this okay since it's obviously got a 180 deg hood scoop that picks up air from the front and the back.  :roll:
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Offline 38flattie

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Re: ATTENTION IN THE PITS Rule Change Deadline September 1
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 06:19:51 AM »
Nathan, you bring up some good points. I agree, that the way I’ve proposed the word change, it would only work for Comp Coupe/Mod Sport . Those should be fast classes, so if a team benefits from aero, great! That is what this is about right-rounding off every corner to try and go faster?

If a person is running a lower profile car, like a Camaro or Firebird, the 11” rule allows for the scoop to reach about level with the top of the car-a pretty good dual device, that allows for air intake, and aero.
Running a higher profile car, has it’s disadvantages, one of them being the hood scoop allows for less aero.

 Our scoop fits over the birdcatcher, and directs the air into the mouth of it. Does the scoop give us some aero? Absolutely! From what I’ve seen, almost all of the scoops out there are being used for aero, even if the main purpose is air induction.

I’m simply trying to even the playing field. I like old iron, and would like to see the old iron running in the faster classes, not just Vettes, Firebirds, Jags, etc.

I don’t think the fact that aero could be benefited from this proposal makes it taboo-rather, I think it should make it more attractive.

Well, unless one has a record that would be threatened, then I suppose it wouldn’t sound so great!

…..but it’s a LOT better than those computer based, boost referenced ignitions running in vintage, that we can’t seem to get rid of! :wink:
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
http://youtu.be/89rVb497_4c