Author Topic: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!  (Read 13351 times)

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Offline Avanti Kid

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Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« on: August 18, 2013, 06:31:31 PM »
This is a subject that really has me ticked off, as stated in SCTA Rule Book in 2012 as follows:

3.M "Parachutes"
   An approved parachute is required on all cars that qualify for the long course (175mph).  Vehicles that exceed 300 mph shall be equipped with two (2) independent parachute systems, all Parachutes shall be opened during inspection. etc

Then new 2012 rule change states the following:

  On those vehicles required to have a parachute/s the deployment of the parachute/s is at the driver's discretion, consistent with safe and efficient event and vehicle operation

To me this new change is like hiring a lifeguard that can't swim, its "dumber than dirt". Here is my reason for saying I'm against this rule and suggest SCTA get rid of it ASAP.  When I not racing my Avanti I help SCTA with the Timing duties at Speed Week, last year I did the timing on courses 3 & 4, had about 125 rookies on course #4 and really no problems with the rookies, our starter would tell  me at the tower what car number was coming and for me to watch at the 2 mile point how the car did in speed, handling and if it had a chute, report if it deployed OK then how did they do on exit speed and clear the course. I feel this is a important requirement for those cars that have a record over 175 mph, that they must deploy their chute at this lower speed to make sure the chute was attached correctly on the race car. Now with this new rule, you don't have to use you chute at the driver wish, thus you don't have to waste your time in the pits repacking your chute. Then later in the week I was doing the timing on course #3 and a Corvette made a very nice run at the 3 mile, his speed was around 200 mph, then as I was watching him from the tower, no chute at the 4, no chute at the 5 and finally he slows down and exit the course around the 5 1/2 to 6 mile point, so I called my long patrol car and asked them to go over the racer and ask the driver why his chute did not deploy.  The patrol told me that the guy in the Corvette decided not to use the chute, so I told my patrol man "You tell the driver I'm not happy with him refusing to use the chute, he has cause additional delay on course 3, which means the next racers are suited up and have to wait longer for him to get off the course." So I got on the FM and notified Lee Kennedy the car number and asked him to give him a warning"  Now, folks this happened because last year I was not aware of this new rule, so I'm guilty of making a mistake and I owe that racer an apology, I hope he reads this message.  Later I told Mariam that I thought that new rule was stupid and needs to be changed so our cars would be safer and move the waiting lines faster by using the chute and not making so  many ruts in the salt from applying the vehicle brakes.
  Now I realize a parachute can be your friend or your enemy if you attach it wrong on your vehicle, but mounted correctly and checked at lower speeds. it should be required to use. Question, why is it required to have parachute at inspection but not required to use on the race course?? So I'm hoping for some remarks from you racers if you think the current rule should stand or go back to the old rule before 2012 which states you must use your chute if the record your racing in is over 175mph. Please, if you respond give your name and race car number so I can put a survey together to give to SCTA rules change process, Please give me pros & cons on this statement, thanks for your time, Dave Bloomberg (Avanti Kid Racing)  :cheers:
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 07:28:57 PM »
We've run a Street Roadster over 200 and are out at the 6.  What's wrong with that?

Observation during licensing on mandatory chute deployment can affirm correct usage. 
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Avanti Kid

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 07:50:14 PM »
Stan as the rule stands today you don't have to use your chute during licensing as stated if the driver decides not to use the chute, you only have to have your chute for at inspection before an event and also if you don't use you chute that means your using your brakes which can cause ruts on the salt. Maybe next they will say you don't need to use a chute at El Mirage and you go  out the back door???
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Avanti Kid

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2013, 07:56:52 PM »
Stan the example I gave you was on course 3 which is 3 miles long, your example is on course 1 or 2 which is 5 miles long so you stopping without using your chute at the 6 is very good, must have good brakes.
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline manta22

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2013, 08:05:18 PM »
The only way that I can see braking causing ruts in the salt surface is if the car has a high CG which transfers weight to the front tires. On an already very heavy car running narrow LSR tires it could cause such high pressure on the salt surface that it could cause depressions or ruts in the surface. A high CG and a heavy car seems to indicate that roadsters, etc. would be the most likely candidates.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Avanti Kid

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2013, 08:24:25 PM »
Thank you Stan and Neil for your responses, Dave
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline JR529

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2013, 08:32:10 PM »
Dave,

I agree 100% with half your issue and completely disagree with the other half.

It seems like your real issue is racers just rolling down the course and holding up the meet. This is a VERY real problem and it seems to be the same guys, over and over and over again.

In the 369 Roadster (220-235 mph) we only use the chute if we have an issue of some sort, otherwise we roll out and use the brakes. In each case I just researched we were clear of the course within 1.25 miles past our shut off. One of those times (last year) the rover asked what happened to my chute and I told him it worked perfectly, I didn't pull it and it didn't pop out. I then asked him if I cleared the course fast enough and he said yes. I was sitting at the 5.25 on the return road after running to the 4.

I dont care HOW they clear the course, just that the DO clear the course quickly. There is very few excuses for a short course car to be passing the 5 mile marker, even if it is dragging a chute (streamliners excepted).

That guy should have got a yellow tag for obstructing the meet, not for failing to pull his chute. Let him worry about how to clear the course, we don't need top legislate actions for all.

We should also yellow tag every car that fails to clear the course and requires external assistance to do so. It seems to be the same cars each time that end up stopping on course....

When we pull our chute we have to then wash it fully and let it air dry before repacking or it wont open reliably. Thats a 2-3 hour job. Not a problem if we needed it but it would be a waste if we were just throwing it overboard to make big brother happy.

But to reiterate, I would 100% support a "clear the course quickly" rule based on the speed on which they actually cleared the course, with yellow tags for those who just cant make it happen.

Regards,

John

Offline johnneilson

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2013, 08:46:16 PM »
Dave,
with regards to El Mo procedure, it is mandatory to use chute if car is so equipped.
It is my understanding that this was optional in years past, not now.

John
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline jdincau

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2013, 09:07:39 PM »
Dave,
     My son and I run an F/SR # 662. We have to run a chute at El Mirage because the record in our class is over 160 and we use it every pass. While the chute is on the car at Bonneville, we consider it an emergency device like a fire bottle and don't deploy it as a matter of course. We have no trouble slowing and pulling off in an timely manner.
     I am also partners in car #700 C/BFMR. On that car the driver uses the chute every run no matter what.
     My point is that one size does not fit all and I am glad we do not have to wear out the chute on the street roadster dragging it a quarter of a mile to the return road every pass.
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Offline Avanti Kid

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 10:09:31 PM »
You guys are making some excellent response and are making sense, yes my main thing was to clear the course as quick as possible, I have been racing at Muroc, El Mirage and Bonneville for 20 years now and we always use our chute, after a run we always shake the salt out of our chute, repack it with no problems and race again, never having a chute failure. I do know some cars must use a chute for safety or they will spin at speeds over 200 mph, in 2006 I drove my brothers Pantera and at 180mph at the 5 mile point I got off the power and instantly spun out, later we found you must power into the chute to stabilize the suspension a Pantera, Now on the other hand my Avanti is  a longer wheel base and not mid-engine, so I can get off the power and take the load of the engine's connecting rods, coast then deploy the chute with no problems, but at speeds on only up to 216 mph we always use our chute to reduce roll out and take an early turn out to the return road, thanks guys for your remarks, Dave
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline javajoe79

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 10:31:25 AM »
 I thought the new wording of the rules was aimed at cars that are chute equipped but for whatever reason run less then 175mph on any given run. In the past I thought the rule was that if you are chute equipped, you have to use it every run regardless of how fast you run. Seems like if you can't clear the course fast enough without using your chute, then you should be warned that you are taking too long to clear the course and if you persist in taking too long, you should be required to use the chute.

 Also if the part about using the brakes to heavily damages the course is true, then certainly chute deployment over a certain speed should be required.
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Offline Tman

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2013, 10:41:31 AM »
In the #416 pickup we do not run a chute. Record is 164 and change.  Tim runs at Elmo and the salt. I have never been told that we do not clear the course fast enough. It is common courtesy to GTFOOTW!

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2013, 11:35:41 AM »
Back to our roadster . . .
No front brakes, just bad aero.

Saw the times on a competitor with full road-racing brakes that I believe got a 200+ time in the quarter, less all the way thru including a 5-mile exit speed.  Now there's the problem.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Avanti Kid

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2013, 12:52:39 PM »
Stan, my Avanti does not have front brakes either, I don't want to take the chance of the front brakes coming on too hard compared to the rear brakes, thus causing a spin, and with my car weighing 4400 lbs. (700lbs ballast) the little rear brakes on my Ford 9" rear end don't do much for stopping my heavy car, so we just use the chute to get off the track as early as possible and coast pretty good on the return road. Guys again, its interesting to hear your comments, I hope some of this discussion will help new racers at Bonneville on how the set up their car and operate on the salt. Thanks Dave
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 84
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Seldom Seen Slim

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Re: Using a parachute at Bonnevile at over 175mph!
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2013, 01:19:35 PM »
Okay on what I've read, but now to the personal aspect of this question for me.

I've been offered a ride in a B/STR at WoS.  I don't  know what the car's owner will want me to do with the chute, but I'd like to be very clear on what the SCTA Bonneville rules tell me to do.  The record is over 200 although I'm doubting that I'll go anywhere near it on my first runs in the car - maybe never at all.

Am I required to use the chute by the rules?  Is it an option that the owner and I can discuss (for my personal edification)?  Or is chute use at WoS in September 2013 an option based on whatever variables at the instant of whether-to-deploy-or-not?
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