(Note: LANDRACING.COM donations are not tax deductible)


This is a public forum. The opinions expressed here don't
necessarily reflect the feelings of The Folks That Run The Site (that's us)
unless we explicitly say so, ok?


Author Topic: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event  (Read 285320 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Freud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5419
  • Age: 88
  • Location: Everett, WA - USA
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #570 on: August 15, 2013, 10:24:49 PM »
At his level it may have been a one string banjo.

Just a plucker.

FREUD
Since '63

Offline jl222

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Location: Clovis calif.
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #571 on: August 15, 2013, 10:38:42 PM »
Hot Rod... I'm just saying, BNI needs to look at improving the course any way they can.

  I've been preachin suspension for years and a lot needs to be learned [including me] about optimum shock and 4 bar setup, trouble is most books are for pavement and the several books I have don't do a good job of explaining what to change in loose conditions.

 Looks like Speed Demon has a handle on it but what could it do on a good course?

 Be interesting if they could apply as much early throttle as in past years.

 Kent..yea Save The Salt needs to get the salt on the course. They talk about all the TONS of salt, is water counted as part of the weight?

  From comparing some of the faster car times at the 21/4 from years past it looks like they just couldn't hook up.

  Really not much reporting on the salt conditions. But there was a video from the bike and Slims report which helped explain the loose coditions.

              JL222

  
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 10:42:27 PM by jl222 »

Offline hotrod

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1231
    • Black Horse photo
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #572 on: August 15, 2013, 11:04:16 PM »
I think one of the issues is the way the salt cures from year to year and the drying conditions.

This year as many recall on Thursday and Friday, there were lots of areas where there was a top layer of "stick to your shoes" salt that was in the process of drying but was still too wet to cement to the layers below. As it dried out it got harder and to casual examination it appeared to be good hard consolodated salt again but I suspect that in that top layer it needs time to cross bond between the salt crystals after it "appears" to be ready to race, before it really bonds to lower layers and forms a cohesive layer. 

If that is the case it might behave similar to snow crust on top of a weak layer of snow and under high shear load (ie a car sliding) the weaker top layer breaks free sooner than you would expect and results in more tendency to spin for cars that are marginal.

Maybe it needs a bit more time to cure and cross bond especially on course #1 before we consider it "ready to race".

There is probably some research out there that would help figure out the proper drying conditions and time delays (much like curing concrete needs a period of time 28 days to cure to reach full strength after it sets -- I suspect the salt does too as it also is constructed of an interlocking matrix of crystals)

Maybe BNI needs to talk to some engineering schools and see if there are some bright graduate students who would be willing to do a paper or controlled studies of how to form a really firm hard racing surface after a late July or August wet down as we had this year?

It is common knowledge that the racing surface varies from year to year but why and how does that happen? Why in two apparently similar years you get different salt behavior and racing performance out of a surface that on casual inspection is ready to race on and hard and dry?


Offline Seldom Seen Slim

  • Nancy and me and the pit bike
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12488
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Skandia, Michigan
  • Nancy -- 201.913 mph record on a production ZX15!
    • Nancy and Jon's personal website.
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #573 on: August 15, 2013, 11:07:02 PM »
Here are a couple of things to ponder:

First of all, tonight was the Volunteer Party at the Wendover Community Center.  While there I learned that this event had about 550 entrants (pre-entries less no-shows/cancellations plus entries at the salt), of which about 330 were cars/trucks, 220 were bikes.  The were something like 146 new records set - but strangely enough, 96 or so were by bikes and the rest by cars/trucks.  The usual is just the opposite of that -- lots more car records than bikes. n I don't know why there's a difference and none was offered.

A few days ago I was talking with Mike Cook (who runs the Shootout).  He was telling Nancy and me that Intrepid, the mining company across the road, was chatting with him about the conditions way down at the freeway end of the international course -- the one that the Shootout uses.  The big pipe that spews the salty water back onto the course down there worked fine -- but since it was just one - the salt spread out from that one point.  The guy from Intrepid said to Mike something like "Hey, if you want it spread more evenly we'll just add a handful of new pipes along the dike.  And they did just that, and now that end of the course sure looks wonderful - 'specially when compared to last year.  At the Shootout in '12 the first mile or so looked like salty dirt - much brown, not much white.  It was back enough that many of the vehicles would start at the half mile or even farther down, forfeiting the extra length in exchange for better course.  They has less room to accelerate -- but made up for that lack by having a much smoother surface from which to start.  This year -- well, Nancy and I drove down there a couple of times, and it is, indeed, pretty good looking and solid white and pretty smooth, too.  And we didn't run into wet spots.  Last year, you might remember hearing that the water's edge was so close to the end of the course - that the Ack Attack bike chose not to run, expecting the conditions to be too bad for good racing.  So -- the salt spreading/pumping had APPARENTLY (that is, who can prove anything out there where Mother Nature is involved) has made a big difference.  I'll letcha know during the Shootout if things really are better.

And that's enough for now.  I made one run again today - and might have been on a bicycle.  The #1 course wasn't very good -- and I had to pedal the throttle for about 4 1/4 miles (ergo the bike comparison :-D).  I managed a 167 in the last mile - but the back door speed was 177.  See -- finally!  some traction.  Tomorrow I'll run on course #2 and see if it really is better.  There's no question that the start line is better at #2, though.  On the line at #1 there is mostly clean salt, but at the #2 line there are LOTS of black stripes left by spinning tires as the racer/push trucks left the line.  Take that for what it's worth, but I'll run #2 tomorrow morning.
Jon E. Wennerberg
 a/k/a Seldom Seen Slim
 Skandia, Michigan
 (that's way up north)
2 Club member x2
Owner of landracing.com

Offline Tman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3637
  • Location: Black Hills, South Dakota
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #574 on: August 15, 2013, 11:08:53 PM »
So they pumped alot of brine back onto the salt this year right? Is it possible that the "new" salt can seem really good but actually be less dense then salt that has been sitting there for thousands of years? Is there any sort of durometer for salt?

The salt was flat as a pancake, they didn't even need to drag the return roads. Several folks have mentioned the mining pulling the potash out. Best quote I heard was "if you take one ingredient out of a cake it will not be the same" fwiw

tHIS IS ALL SPECULATION THAT I AM ONLY PASSING ON.  oops, caps lock.

Also, I did the sprinkler thing on the truck and had less sticky salt than ANY of my other years there!
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 11:18:50 PM by Tman »

Offline Freud

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5419
  • Age: 88
  • Location: Everett, WA - USA
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #575 on: August 15, 2013, 11:33:06 PM »
T-man, thanks for finding me..

I enjoyed being able to put a face to a name.

Again, a BIG THANKS.

FREUD
Since '63

Offline Saltfever

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • Location: Nor Cal
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #576 on: August 16, 2013, 12:35:28 AM »
One gear only with in-out box!

Uh, that's how they drive them things!
Sorry, T-Man I was making a subtle point. We have all stood on the line and heard a strong car with a 4-speed grunt and groan trying to pull away with LSR rear end ratios. Some never clean-out and shoot ducks for a mile before turning out. (5 & 6 speeds, with their very low starting gear don't seem to have the same problem). Think about it. If you use either 7,500 or 8,500 RPM, 200mph, and 28" Goodyears; Damion's rear gear is either a 3.10 or 3.54. That is a single high gear pull from 35 mph to 200 mph! That is not the same as a sprint car pull with 5.86s from 35 to 85mph. Maybe I'm easily impressed . . . I just thought his tuning and motor were interesting.

Offline ratpatrol66

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
  • Location: Arlington, WA
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #577 on: August 16, 2013, 01:00:18 AM »
Freud,
Great to meet you, send my best to Marlo.

Craig

Offline Avanti Kid

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Canyon Country, CA
  • 2006 Member of Bonneville 200 MPH Club
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #578 on: August 16, 2013, 08:08:38 AM »
Good morning racers, please let us know when Speed Demon makes his record pass this morning with his repaired B engine, I think his race # is 7151 instead of his original race number 715, is that true, have fun and be safe guys,  Dave  :cheers:
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 75
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Avanti Kid

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Canyon Country, CA
  • 2006 Member of Bonneville 200 MPH Club
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #579 on: August 16, 2013, 08:32:07 AM »
Speed Demon is next car for course #1 heads up folks
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 75
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Buzz Lightbeer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: South coast of England
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #580 on: August 16, 2013, 08:36:11 AM »
Just caught the last bit of live streaming for Speed demon exit speed mile5, 451mph:-D

Offline Avanti Kid

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Canyon Country, CA
  • 2006 Member of Bonneville 200 MPH Club
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #581 on: August 16, 2013, 08:36:40 AM »
Congrats to Speed Demon, mile 3= 353.582 mile 4=403.436 5= 438.226 exit= 451.933 that gives him an average around 437 for both runs, fantastic George and Ron  :cheers:
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 75
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Avanti Kid

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Canyon Country, CA
  • 2006 Member of Bonneville 200 MPH Club
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #582 on: August 16, 2013, 08:49:00 AM »
Later this morning after all the record runs have been made, Vesco turbinator streamliner is asking permission to make a run, that would be its second pass at this event, more to come that's official, not sure of my info, Dave
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 75
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline Avanti Kid

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Location: Canyon Country, CA
  • 2006 Member of Bonneville 200 MPH Club
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #583 on: August 16, 2013, 09:12:36 AM »
Vesco Turbinator jet engine is warming up in the pits for a run later!
Original owner of 1963 Avanti; Age 75
2006 Bonneville 200 MPH Club Member
Canyon Country, CA
215.6 mph 289 CI Studebaker engine

Offline sabat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1348
  • Location: Athens, GA
Re: SpeedWeek 2013 - the event
« Reply #584 on: August 16, 2013, 09:14:13 AM »
Go Turbinator II !!!


And HUGE congrats to Poteet & Main, wow wow wow.

Dean