Are pour in injection cleaners snake oil?

[Jonny Hotnuts]

NOTE---- NOT FOR MY RACE MOTORS!!!!

I buy gas for my supercharged daily driver at commercial card lock stations (PacPride).
I would get the same gas in my NA busa for pooping around town. I rebuilt this engine and had tar on the backside of the valves (*like 3/32 tar that was a real pickle to remove!).

I was wondering if things like the Lucas fuel injector cleaner is worth using, or is there another additive that can clean this tar off and remove injector deposits.


~JH

[Captthundarr]

I use quality fuel injector cleaner regularly and recommend it a lot of folks who complained of poor performance on vehicles that have a lot of miles on them. the stuff also helps remove water from the fuel tank.

[Stan Back]

I used to have injector troubles.  Then I settled on Chevron only.  I'd had a card since 1962.  And I'd had troubles with using mixed brands of gas.  So I'd buy a bottle of Textron(sp?) and fix it.  Gave up and just bought Chevron with Textron in it and never had a problem since. YRMV.

[hotrod]

The other option is to clean and flow test your injectors.

I sent injectors out to http://witchhunter.com/ to have them cleaned for my WRX.

I bought a couple sets of used injectors, sent the batch to him and a few days later I had them back in the mail with reports on their individual flow ratings. I then took the injectors and picked out two sets of best matched flow rates, put one set in the car and sold the other set as a flow matched and cleaned set for nearly the cost of the whole project.

This also allows you to build in a little fuel injector flow bias if you have a cylinder that tends to need more fuel than the others as you can select the injectors to compensate for slight breathing differences in the cylinders to get matched mixtures across the engine. He not only cleans and flow tests the injector but replaced the super fine filter screen in each injector. It does not take too many bottles of injector cleaner to pay for the cost of getting the injectors cleaned after they have 50K to 100K miles on them.

[JonAmo]

BG44K... Best on market...

One a secondary note, previous posters hit the nail on the head with two premium fuel stations.  Chevron and PacPride. Why? They provide Top Tier Gasoline. This means the toughest standards of fuel quality. Look for them locally if they are a top tier provider they will have it posted on the pump. Detergents in fuel keeping the combustion chamber cleaner, valves cleaner etc. Also by having this standard they reduce emissions, less carbon and deposit buildup on vehicles the lower the emissions will be. There are too many benefits for me to explain the whole program here, however do some research of Top Tier Fuels and the benefits it provides you in the short and long term for vehicle maintenance.

The best additive drop in tank that I have found for injector cleaning, reduction of carbon buildup, being in the automotive industry, is BG44K.
Most fuel injection clean on board applications that shops try to sell are effortless in doing the real cleaning that is needed. Charging upwards of 159.99 for a drop in tank cleaner, intake cleaning the TB service. Waste of money. If you do decide on a fuel injection clean, for rough idle, excessive HC's, better fuel mileage THE ONLY one that I would recommend is the MotorVac Cleaning. IT is the best on the market, and you will pay for it. DO NOT pay for the drop in tank, feed through vacuum system, TB Clean systems, In my opinion they are not worth it. If you are on the go, BG44K will do the job.
Working in the Automotive industry for the last 20 years I can tell you stories. Ask me when you see me on the salt....

Jon

[Stainless1]

On the trip across country to go racing, we occasionally end up with some questionable gas and diesel... when you fill up and pick up a miss.... you know you have been hosed....

BG 44K for gas and 244 for diesel has rescued us multiple times.

One of these days we will be rich like Stan and always be able to shop at the premium gas stations 

[runt13]

love the BG products, a bit pricy but well worth it for personally owned vehicles.

now with my fleet vehicles [238] of them I use seafoam at every oil change, this along with diesel fuel conditioner in the diesels has eliminated 90% of fuel related issues. now if could get them to stop putting gas in diesels, diesel in gas engines and dirt in everything, I would be happy

[aircooledtechguy]

A bit late to this party, but. . .

Several years ago, a client of mine brought in his engine for me to look at.  It had about 50K on it and had been sitting for about 5 months.  It wouldn't completely turn over any more.  It would only turn about 355 degrees and stop just before/after TDC.  When we took the heads off it was all VERY clear.  There had been a massive build-up of carbon on the piston and the combustion chambers.  So much that when it sat for several months, it began to loosen and fall to the bottom of the chamber.  There was so much of this build-up that it literally mechanically locked the engine!!  What remained was almost 1/16" thick in places.

The back side of the intake valve looked like one of those valves you see on the Chevron commercial with tar build-up that look like stalagmites/stalactites.  He said that he only used Shell gas. . .

I've been using Chevron almost exclusively for 11 years now (due to it being 1 block away from the shop and cheaper than anywhere else) and I have not had any build-up on my valves or combustion chambers/pistons on any of my personal cars.  I also use the Chevron injector cleaner (buy it at Costco cheap) and use a bottle once a month.  Seems to work well for me.

I've heard about BG products and might give that a try next time too.

[JonAmo]

This is a very interesting post. I am involved in an organization AMRA/MAP as a subject matter expert that deals with industry standards on this very subject. One of the things we recently debated, research and concluded in the organization is carbon buildup in engines. CARB says they do not have an issue with carbon buildup, in the contrary to what SAE papers say on the subject. This is an ongoing battle with engines. However, with that being said I would suggest all here be informed and research Top Tier fuels. Next time look at the pump and see if it says it. Vehicles that use Top Tier gasoline's have less problems with carbon buildup in engines. It comes down to deposits in the engine that are left over from the combustion process (and other stuff as well). Top Tier fuel contain the best additives for deposit control in the engine and specifically valves. Chevron is a retailer that uses Top Tier gasoline's.   This is a VERY HOT topic in the automotive industry both on the OE side and aftermarket side. Carbon buildup can cause a wide variety of symptoms and issues in the engine that affect performance, fuel mileage, idle concerns etc.

You want the best thing for your engine use Top Tier gasoline's and those retailers who provide it. The cost is about the same and the use of that fuel will pay dividends in the future of the life of engine and engine/performance repairs.

Jon
 

[wobblywalrus]

Use of high quality gasolines and running an occasional tank full of gas with injector cleaner seems to work good.  The injector cleaner is used right before the oil is changed so that any gunk it loosens up goes out of the motor with the old oil.

[RansomT]

But what do you do when you live in the part of the country that has only 1 supplier of fuel from the wholesale level?  The most populated areas of Kentucky (Lexington, Louisville, Northern KY), only has Marathon as the supplier.  Shell, Chevron, Gulf, and all these off brands get there gas from the same truck here.

[Stan Back]

I believe that a lot of stations in our populous area get their gas from the same supplier, too.  But I've been told that they're mixed to order at the "tank farm".  Perhaps Jon can confirm this practice.

[RacerX9623]

I am an auto mechanic. Euro cars mostly. BMW VW and Mini have problems with carbon. We have to pull the manifolds and use walnut shells to blast the carbon out from around the valves. The manifolds have to go out and be rotted clean. Both gas a diesel have the problem. The new direct injection vehicles are now showing the problem. Oil from the crank case enters the manifold and cooks on the intake valve. No fuel is sprayed on the valve so it never cools down or gets cleaned. Money in the bank for mechanics.

I have personally seen the effects of BG products. They do what they advertis. But no snake oil will FIX bad bearing rings valve guides or seals.

[Ron Gibson]

I used to haul gas. In the Omaha area there are three suppliers. BP has it's own pipeline and terminal. In Omaha area BP is it's own fuel.  At that time BP's premium was 92 octane while everyone else's was 91 octane. At BP and other pipelines the fuel is held in large tanks witch is raw gas. When it is loaded on the trucks additives are added to bring it up to the specs of whatever company is buying the fuel for their stations.

Cut-rate stations buy just the raw gas or with fewer additives.  That makes them cheaper and more harmful to injected cars and trucks. That's why first tier as explained in another post should be used.

They all pick out an additive to advertise, boron (Sunray DX) de-icer (Standard Oil) keotane (Skelly) etc.etc. They all have these additives in varying amounts and maybe some of their own, except the really cheap ones, not many of them left.

YMMV
Ron