Author Topic: Weight bias  (Read 4370 times)

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Offline garys speed shop

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Weight bias
« on: July 28, 2013, 05:56:10 PM »
We are doing alignment on our car on Mon and need some help. We are running a 2001 sprint cup  nascar ford in time only class.  The car had run 237 in 2006 on the salt but we don't have any set up notes. Right now we are about balanced on both fronts and left rear with the right rear being 150 lbs lighter. Total car weight with driver of 3,400 lbs. We have been told adding 500 lbs  low and in front of the rear tires could help stability.  When we add weight there it seems as if  the weight bias is shifting is shifting to the front percentage wise. How close should we be from left rest to right rear? We are worried about the right rear being the lighter and spinning.

Offline javajoe79

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 03:03:02 PM »
So if I read this right you have 3 corners at the same weight but the right rear is 150lbs lighter?

Is the driver weight in the car where it belongs?
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Offline hotrod

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 03:32:57 PM »
Depending on your suspension design you can also jack weight around a bit by changing the spring rate on the various corners of the suspecion. Stiffening up the right rear spring will put more weight on that wheel if I remember correctly (stock car guys who use weight jacking and "wedge" can give you the detail low down on how to do that to fine tune the wheel weights without moving physical weight around.

Circle Track magazine and a few other sources that cater to the oval racing folks often discuss it in articles.

I would get the wheels that transmit power as even as possible, perhaps even a bit more weight on the right rear since it will tend to lift slightly under load due to the ring gear pinion torque force under acceleration.

Offline garys speed shop

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 06:31:26 AM »
We have it weighted with a full tank of fuel and a driver and at the current time we have 800 lb on the front, 1000 lb on left rear and 900 lb on the right rear

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2013, 10:03:35 AM »
My guess is spin left in your current configuration.  :roll:

How and where are you putting in weight?  What type of third member are you using?  What will your aero do at speed, lift or downforce?
There is no one size fits all at the salt...

I suggest at a minimum, corners be balanced side to side....  and the back heavier than the front... nose low.  Just my opinion, not that it is worth much.
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Offline thundersalt

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2013, 10:49:22 AM »
My guess is it will spin to the right. :evil:

Are you using a 4 pad scale? Turn the front wheels while on the scale, you might be surprised on what you see.
I think your close enough to tune with rear spring preload.
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Offline wheelrdealer

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2013, 11:28:32 AM »
Here's my 2 cents...

I was told and ran in 2011, 51% to 49% Driver's side to Passenger and 48% Front to 52% rear. If the car sashays or feels squirrely then add weight to the Right Rear as low as possible in the chassis. The car ran straight all week. We did not move weight all week. Car weighed 3,778 lbs. 1973 Camaro. D motor.

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Offline Peter Jack

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 12:26:10 PM »
The only way to get the rear wheels both the same weight is to physically add 150 pounds to the right rear in exactly the correct spot. If you turn the load bolt to increase the weight on the right rear you will also increase the weight on the left front. At the same time you will take weight out of the left rear and right front. Turning the load bolts changes the diagonal weight distribution but it will not change the overall weight on either side or either end. Any small change indicated is caused by friction in the chassis.

I hope this explanation helps. It takes some thinking to understand the concept but once you've got it it will stay with you forever.

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Offline hotrod

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 01:17:23 PM »
The way I visualize weight jacking is what happens when you have a table with one table leg a bit too long. The table has most of its weight on the two diagonal legs which include the longer leg. Weight jacking is like putting small shims under the table legs until it stops rocking and all the legs carry the same weight.

Peter Jacks example is good, but if you think about what it tells you, it also opens opportunities if you can't find a good place to put the weight where you want it on the right rear.
Jack a little weight on the right rear. Its weight goes up a bit and that takes weight off the right front and left rear.

It might be much easier to put a little more physical weight on the right front and left rear than the same amount of weight right where you want it at the right rear. You can also shift the body just a fraction of an inch to one side relative to the rear axle.

A quarter inch here, a small spacer in a spring perch or a turn of a screw, a couple small weights on the right front and left rear could all add up to equal weight side to side and front to back.

Simple tests are much faster than major fabrication changes.
Buy a couple bags of sand and make test weights with small sand bags and try different locations and relative weights until you find the right combination. Then fabricate a physical weight of the same size and mount it as close as possible to where you had the sand bag, or relocate heavy components like batteries an small amount in the right direction if you can.

You don't have to use one or the other. Small changes in both the chassis wedge and weight can be used together to get where you need to be.

Offline garys speed shop

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Re: Weight bias
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2013, 07:09:33 AM »
Thanks for the help. We about got it nailed.