Author Topic: Ethics among photographers professional behavior  (Read 26475 times)

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Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2013, 07:40:21 PM »
I paid $450 to be on that starting line, perhaps the photographers should too.

That's probably the best solution I've seen so far.   I was waiting to start.  The car in the other lane was on the course and I had a photographer crawling (literally) all over me and the sidecar taking (I presume) close up shots of this that and the other.  At that point in time I would have gladly banned anyone with a camera.  Its a two way street.

I paid my $450 entry fee, several hundred dollars for gas, $900 for the hotel room and a few hundred dollars for food etc.  My crewman did much the same except for the entry fee.  My crewman and wife are needed on the line to help me get ready to run.  I'll be damned if they are going to be dictated to by photographers.




Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.

Offline hotrod

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2013, 07:56:14 PM »
We need to be careful in this discussion not to conflate issues and push the thread off topic.

The original thread topic was plainly as stated a discussion of good practices among responsible photographers, be they professional or a team photographer. I do not in the least begrudge a team designating a team member to document their efforts --- BUT the team also has a moral obligation to pick someone for that task who has a grasp of what good photographic practice is as well as good safety practices for racing photographers.

As mentioned above we have drifted into a different issue here. There are a lot of random spectator photographers who "just want to get this shot" or simply are oblivious to rules and markers that indicate where they should be. Those are the largest worry for safety and degrading the whole starting line operation.

As mentioned above better signing and marking would help, but at some point you need someone to have the authority to "herd the cats" and keep things under control. When the popular cars like the streamliners head to the line it is like trying to keep ants away from a hotdog, and the SCTA starting line staff is simply not staffed to cope with that issue as well as running a safe starting line and race course. Too many challanges too few hands feet and eyes.

Due to the recent increase in popularity we have crossed a boundary into an area of over load where old measures are simply not adequate any more.

My suggestion would be to make the starting box  a wider trapazoid getting wider toward the starting line. That would provide more "spectator elbow room" with an unobstructed view of the starting process, and also more work room for the teams as they get close to the line.

Put a heavy 1 foot wide blue line across the starting staging area, about 50' behind the start line and write with the blue dye "Restricted area, teams and authorized staff only -- NO SPECTATORS allowed"

Likewise some pennant banners flying up near the starting line, that say "starting box restricted area"

There will always be some spectators and random folks that think they are "special" and do not need to follow posted rules but it really helps if the people authorized to be in the starting box, could easily point at an obvious marker and say "you have to get back behind that or they won't run the car!"

The big problem is just the first 2 days it gets more controllable after the weekend but I have watched the leakage process as crowd pressure builds as a popular car stages. Sooner or later one or two people obviously just average spectators breach the barriers and go out where the don't belong. The crowd will watch what happens and if no corrective action is taken a few more leak out then it becomes an incoming tide as they figure it must be tolerated since everyone else is doing it.

The cure is good signs, (good human design of the spectator barrier -- make it difficult to step over or duck under) and a quick response to the first 3-5 folks who push the envelope.

It perhaps is not the job of the starting crew or the photographers, maybe we need to see if Lynda can round up a few extra security bodies to prowl around the starting box when the big guns run. Someone in a bright Red vest that says "security" or "safety" on it might be much better at shooing the interlopers away from the danger zone at the front edge of the starting box.

It is likely that with that marking they would not get any back talk from most people.

Offline RayTheRat

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2013, 08:01:06 PM »
I paid $450 to be on that starting line, perhaps the photographers should too.

That's probably the best solution I've seen so far.   I was waiting to start.  The car in the other lane was on the course and I had a photographer crawling (literally) all over me and the sidecar taking (I presume) close up shots of this that and the other.  At that point in time I would have gladly banned anyone with a camera.  Its a two way street.

I paid my $450 entry fee, several hundred dollars for gas, $900 for the hotel room and a few hundred dollars for food etc.  My crewman did much the same except for the entry fee.  My crewman and wife are needed on the line to help me get ready to run.  I'll be damned if they are going to be dictated to by photographers.

I don't believe that any photographers want to dictate to the racers.  We're there to do numerous things, as Rick pointed out.  What we'd like to do is make our working conditions better so that we can provide better photos of the action; not to act as directors of same, nor make things tough on those same racers.  If there was a photog "crawling all over you", you certainly had the right to say, "get the f*ck away from me!"  If it was me, I'd feel ashamed, but at the same time realize that I was really imposing on one of the racers.

I believe that racers and those who record the happenings of the event need each other.  Yeah, you could race without photogs, but there would be no visual record of what happened and in the case of LR, people around the world wouldn't see what you were doing. 

Again, the last thing I wanna do (well, short of gettin run over) is to make the racers' lives miserable.

Offline hotrod

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2013, 08:01:28 PM »
Ref the post above, any photographer who does that and becomes a pain to the race team needs to have his vest pulled for 24 hours and a sit down. There is no excuse for getting all over a team while they are tying to get ready to run.

Offline SabreTooth

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2013, 08:03:18 PM »
A Strawman for folks to throw mud at and constructively criticise:

  • Waaay up course (meaning return roads, tower area etc.): Only accredited photographers with official credentials, briefing and safety equipment (that have passed the photographers equivalent of tech inspection). You only get a vest if you have passed the initiation rites and have approval form the grand poobah, whomever that may be
  • Just beyond the start line: Only accredited photographers when the course is open and within an appropriate area, presumably the 45 degree area spoken of. With the starter's permission but only when the course is closed, crew members only and only within say 10 yards of the start line that can be recalled quickly and simply by the starter when the course reopens. No wandering up course (start throwing mud...)
  • Start boxes: Clearly marked with lines and appropriate signage. Arm banded crew members only of the vehicle in the respective start box. I'm not even sure accredited photographers should be allowed in, for their own and the crew's safety and due to the likely distractions to the racer (Sorry I couldn't resist, but because everyone likes a good photo of themselves after the event even if it is annoying at the time, the photos are appreciated so I guess it's OKaaay to allow accredited photographers in the start box :-D)
  • Staging: Open to arm band crew members of all teams. Is here really a problem with spectators being there too? From a safety perspective, I see potential issues, especially when vehicles are being moved and engines warmed up. From a bugging teams when they are trying to do stuff, that should be controllable. From what I have seen in only 2 times to Speed Week, issues in the staging area / line up don't seem to appear to be a problem and most teams are pretty accommodating to the curious.
  • No yellow vests for teams unless they apply for press credentials because they have a professional on the team. Same photographer safety briefing required. I didn't know a team could apply for them, there did seem to be quite a few more vests than 2011. I don't really even remember there being vested press in 2011.
  • All spectators should received (if not already the case) a pamphlet with the spectating rules and guidelines, where they are allowed and where absolutely the heck not.
  • The starter may benefit from a starter's assistant (but that requires even more volunteers) to herd lost sheep (or folks blatantly ignoring the rules and putting themselves or any one else at a safety risk)

For the collective consideration and in the vein of helping work up the education portion. I don't get to make the rules and don't wish to. As for people being in the way that are allowed to be where they are at, patience I hear is a virtue.

Jim

Offline SabreTooth

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2013, 08:14:57 PM »
Caution: This post may provoke many differing opinions!

I'm gonna go put on my Nomex undies just in case of flames.   :roll:

No NOMEX required. I did want to try to ensure that the safety aspect wasn't being used or interpreted as an excuse to get people out of lines of sight. The latter benefits from the former and the former is required for everyone's safety and that the show may go on. I fully respect professionals trying to go about their business, I understand fully the sight line stuff but that photographers also have to be impartial observers and not end up participants (see the in your face comments above). I don't race (yet) but I do know from crewing that distractions on the line from anyone (crew included) are not always appreciated and can really start to be a safety concern.

Discussion is all good.

Jim
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 08:16:56 PM by SabreTooth »

Offline manta22

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2013, 08:43:34 PM »
We have a mandatory drivers' meeting-- how about one for photographers?

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline RayTheRat

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »
From reply #49:
"So here is my suggestion for the day: Speed Week Photographer Rookie Class, Saturday morning before Drivers meeting, you get your rookie sticker you get your vest."


Offline hotrod

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2013, 08:57:00 PM »
That was my thought have JoAnn hand out the press credentials (badges) but hold the vests hostage until they present their press pass at the photographers briefing. Then they get issued the vest.

Offline RayTheRat

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2013, 09:28:35 PM »
That was my thought have JoAnn hand out the press credentials (badges) but hold the vests hostage until they present their press pass at the photographers briefing. Then they get issued the vest.

I could live with that.

Offline Freud

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2013, 11:52:22 PM »
BRILLIANT !!  JoAnn needs another time consuming job.

FREUD
Since '63

Offline hotrod

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2013, 12:49:33 AM »
No I am trying to relieve some of her work load. She already hands out the press passes and credentials, just move the location of the press vest distribution to the photographers safety meeting, at the end of the meeting present your credentials to the instructor and get a vest, not from JoAnn but from who ever conducts the meeting. Then they return a list to her of the vest numbers associated with the press credentials.

That way you know everyone wearing a vest has been to the safety briefing.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 12:52:12 AM by hotrod »

Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2013, 01:22:16 AM »
It isn't a 100% fix, but signs indicating "Officials, press and crew only beyond this point" would possibly stop half of the knuckleheads, and give everybody involved a sign to point to. 

No runs until ALL non authorized people are behind the line would bring peer pressure on the other half to getthehelloutoftheway.

I once had a guy cut in front of me in line at the DMV.  He said, "I was here".  I said, in a clear voice to everybody behind me, "Pal, personally, I really don't care, provided these folks who are waiting behind me don't care."

One guy indicated his displeasure . . . then another . . . then another . . . and that's all it took.

Stop the racing until unauthorized dolts are clear, and I think you'll see enough peer pressure to all but eliminate the problem.
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline dw230

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2013, 06:34:44 PM »
I like that Chris, problem will solve itself.

DW
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Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

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Offline Nortonist 592

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Re: Ethics among photographers professional behavior
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2013, 12:05:31 AM »
I think one of the professional photographers should organize the photographers safety meeting, handle the approval of credentials, hand out the passes and vests and be responsible for the photographers behavior and ensure the return of the vests.  On a voluntary, non remunerative basis of course.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 01:45:07 AM by Nortonist 592 »
Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.