Ethics among photographers professional behavior

[hotrod]

I approach this topic with a bit of caution. I don't wish this to be a thread full of rants and bad blood but on the same token I think it is time for a frank discussion among the photographers and even the car owners about good ethics among photo journalists consideration of the photographers needs to get those shots you love to look at later.

Taking pictures on the salt flats and other land racing venues has more than enough challenges that we need to make a concerted effort not to unnecessarily interfere with other photographers who are trying to do their job but have a different “view point” and using differing methods to get their images.

I have noticed a gradual deterioration in professional respect among photographers and videographers over the last decade or so and I think it is time for a frank discussion regarding what is good professional photographer behavior and how to make sure we are not screwing up someone else's shot of a life time. There is so much going on that someone else may be capturing a unique event just feet from you that you are totally unaware is happening.

In years past, I remember when still photographers would instinctively glance over their shoulder as they took a point of view and ask other photographers nearby if they were “in their shot”. The photographers respected each other enough to make a conscious effort to avoid stepping into another persons shot or blocking a viewpoint. If everyone works together we all get better shots.

Many still photographers and videographer prefer the up close tight shots, and like to hover around a car getting shots of wheels and headers or an in your face shot of the driver, but recently they have lost that sense that they should only briefly intrude into that sacred shot space near the car and then get out so other photographers can get their shots.

This seems especially common with the videographers. I realize you need to get up close to get your tight shots and do your slow pans down the length of the car, but take a second to  notice the 15 still photographers standing behind you with cameras at the ready patiently waiting for you to get out of their shots so they can get a wide view of the car and the crew doing their thing.

It is a real pain to have to wait 15 minutes or more to grab a shot in a 3 second window while the videographer goes to get a new battery or put the camera on the tripod before he/she steps back into the shot with the camera on the tripod to then sets up a close up pan or something.

Same goes for the still photographers who like the artsy shots with up close oblique views of the cars. Take your shot then look over your shoulder and clear the frame for a bit so the wide and long shooters can get their shots. Good photographers only need 20-30 seconds of clear view to get several shots, if the folks who like tight shots will give them a break and create a clear window to take the shot.

On several occasions I have anticipated an event like the closing of the canopy and a thumbs up from the driver and set up to get good tight telephoto shot of the driver looking up at his crew, waited 5-10 minutes for the activity to get to that moment only to have some tight shooter with out a single glance over his shoulder step right in the middle of the shot and poach the image I was trying to get.

On a side note, the same applies to the spectators, if you want to see great shots of the cars, occasionally look around and make sure you are not blocking a good shot. About 30% of the general public retain a bit of awareness of their surroundings and will actually stop and pause a moment to prevent walking into a shot. If they do, I ALWAYS thank them for their consideration!

Just a little reminder that you are not the only photographer out there and not all other photographers and videographers have the same viewpoint or image in mind that you do. I like to do wide shots and panorama images that encompass the whole environment and use a telephoto to get the tight shots when I can. Your feet and a Nike zoom are not the only way to get those tight shots.   

[PorkPie]

Hot Rod,

thank you very much for this comments....

I would have a hard time with my bad English to write this in a polite way....I always sound very hard...which is never my idea...

you be right,

especially in the last three years we got so much "photographer" around the starting line....who are not taking care....this are the once I called in the other thread
"one day (press) photographer".....they run in your view....block your view...or simply stays by the racer after they done the picture.....

see the picture you like to do.....go forward...make the shots....clear the place....and look behind you that you not run into a other photographer views....

Hope we will have this year more luck....

Hot Rod, thanks again to bring this thread here.

Looking for to seeing you at the salt....
 

[hotrod]

I'm looking forward to seeing you too PorkPie!

There is a related ethical issue here that we might as well touch base on for the car owners and spectators.
Under current copyright law an image is copyrighted the moment it is taken. All images are copyrighted by someone.

If you "borrow" an image you get in an email or see on a web page and post it on your facebook page, it is YOUR responsibility to provide a photo credit, even if the original photo is not marked by the photographer. If you want photographers to provide you good pictures of your car do not abuse them by using their images without some form of credit.

The right way to do it is to ask permission to post the image in some other venue than it appears, if for what ever reason, such as you do not know who took the picture you should provide a reference link back to the source of the image, or better yet send an email and try to find out the proper photo credit information. Photographers are judged by the quality of their work that appears in the public domain. If you steal a crappy low resolution image and post it even with photo credit information you are doing a disservice to the photographer, who in all likelihood would have provided you a higher resolution copy if you had just bothered to ask, and expressed a willingness to attach photo credits.

Mechanics don't like it when folks take tools out of their tool boxes without asking permission and photographers have pretty much the same view of folks who poach images without asking or providing any photo credits or links back to the original source.

[38flattie]

Larry,I think you bring up a good point about 'borrowing' images! I've never felt bad about 'borrowing' images of my own car, as most times we were never asked if we minded being photographed.

I now think, that when we take the car to a public venue, we have to expect it, and therefore give the photographer their due credit!

Anyway, I'm excited to see the shots you emailed about, and we'll see you on the salt!

[RayTheRat]

Thanks for posting this, Hotrod.  It very well states the opinion of most photographers who shoot at the starting lines.  Generally, we try to move back from the line as we move downcourse at a 45 degree angle.  This seems to work pretty well and allows everyone with a media vest to get a good shot.  However, those who, as you've described, jump in to get a closeup right at a critical moment are the bane of the rest of us.  Like you, I've found the backside of some rude people in shots that I'd spent quite a while waiting for.  It doesn't take long to look over one's shoulder to make sure that they're not getting into someone else's shot.

Some of these folks are credentialed photographers; some are hangers-on who've managed to get vests.  Those in the second category won't read this and they'll still do what they want, without any concept of professional cooperation.  There are also the spectators who figure that nobody will mind if they just "get one shot"...which might take...again, as you've mentioned...4-5 minutes, without any regard for anyone else who might be doing the photography with the blessing of the sanctioning body.

The others that kinda fall into this category are the spectators who left their brains at a casino in Wendover....and might have a coupla small kids or dogs with 'em and "ease" out beyond the starting lines.  I know that the SCTA/USFRA folks at the starting line do their very best to keep this under control, but when I see some goofball wander up to a roadster or lakester with open headers or exposed engine trailing a 4 or 5 year-old kid (and looking thru the camera at the car and not watching the kid), I just shudder to think of what might happen if the car might lose control or toss a rod thru the side of the block with said kid up close and personal.

Finally, I appreciate the mention that the photos we shoot of cars at a public venue are our intellectual property.  There's a whole lotta legalese stuff about who owns photos of stuff shot on publicly-accessible grounds, but the bottom line is that on the salt, the credentialed photographer or his/her employer is the ultimate owner.  There's no requirement for releases unless they're of people under certain circumstances.  Anyway, I've posted photos on LandRacing only to see them show up within hours on FaceBook...without any credit to the photographer.  I don't put heavy watermarks on my photos, although I do some watermarking.  But at the very least, it would be nice to see "Photo by..." added to wherever they're posted. 

That's my 2 cents' worth.

[Seldom Seen Slim]

Two things from me.

I've tried to become more cognisant of the photographer's identity and work - when putting photos on this website and in the Gallery.  If I'm the one that's taken the shots -- I don't put any kind of name on 'em.  Maybe I should learn to do that - to help cut down on the number of photos that get copied from the Gallery for private (or who knows - public?) use.  I know that we usually post only smaller file/lower resolution - even thumbnails -- but I also know that the enlarged images are only a mouseclick away.  When we post photos from others -- like Pork Pie and Ray and Larry/Hotrod -- I'm careful to make sure they get credit.  In fact -- those gus get special sections of the Gallery, both to make it easy to locate their work - and to allow them to have more control over what is posted and available.  I've frequently been asked to allow someone take shots out of the Gallery for this or that (usually commercial) application, but in those cases I request credits be appended to the used shot, if not payment of a royalty to the photographer.  I don't know for sure -- but I do know that I have NOT been swamped with thank-yous from our pro photographers when they receive checks from someone that's use a photo.

I also know that there's on heck of a lot of frustration on the part of a photographer who is careful to do things correctly, post his photos with watermarks or whatever -- and he still gets nothing, not even a thanks, for his efforts.

Okay, that's one.  Number two is different but still about photographers.  Tony Huntimer is putting together a Saturday night picnic, in the parking area of the new Museum, to host the photographers at SpeedWeek.  He says it's a first-time effort and won't be a "meeting" as much as a place to have a slider (his word) and shoot the breeze.  I don't know if we'll go to that picnic -- but I urge all of the photographers on this site - and especially on this subject - to think about going both to support Tony's effort and to maybe start a discussion on the rules and lack thereof about photographing at Bonneville.  You might not get anywhere and might not get cooperation from the rank and file amateurs -- but at least you'll have made a start at putting some kind of order into the mess we now have. 

Thanks to all of you that take photos to preserve that aspect of land speed racing for history.  You guys do good work!!

[WhizzbangK.C.]

I'd like to make another point about photographer etiquette, while the topic is open. Not directed at any of the professionals, as you guys all seem to understand this, but maybe some amateurs will read it and get a clue.

At the Bub meet, multiple times every day for the last several years (it seems like anyway) I have been confronted with situations where a photographer or videographer has set up on the return road, or in the staging areas, in such a way as to be directly in the path of my or another competitors line of travel. Even to the point of blocking my bike from getting out from under my pit tent. When asked to kindly relocate, they frequently return a blast of attitude, sometimes even refusing to move, stating "I need to get this shot".

These folks need to understand that the entire reason we are all there is for the machines to run, not for them to get pictures. If no one were there to run, there would be no pictures. A little respect would go a long way here, and being aware of the situation around them would show that respect.

[hotrod]

I am impressed good discussion going on here, and some important topics coming up for discussion.

Slim, technically the only person who can give permission to use a photograph is the copyright owner which in most cases is the photographer who shot the picture unless they designate someone to act as their agent.

If folks look at the above posts each of the photographers who have posted include signature links to their web pages or in their land racing profile, for contact.

The proper way to handle that is to direct the person requesting use of the photo to the photographer who has the image in his gallery.

The fees for using photography can range from 0 to hundreds of dollars depending on usage. If a commercial advertising agent wants to use an image in a large ad campaign the fair market value of that image might be many hundreds of dollars. Rights to use the photo usually expressly state how the image can be used and list restrictions on maximum resolution, retention of photo credits and such and all those need to be negotiated directly with the copyright owner.

On the other hand a photographer might agree to very low or no cost usage for the exact same photo in a situation where he is willing to waive normal fees, for example if save the salt came to me and asked to use one of my photographs I would most likely offer it to them for free with appropriate express statements of what photo rights that they could use. For example I might limit them to a certain time period or image resolution or a specific fund raising campaign in exchange for the no fee usage.

If the image is a once in a life time image that cannot be reproduced at any cost, like my shot of the Speed Demon spitting out its turbine impeller as it entered the speed traps on a potential 400 mph run, then the exclusivity of the image greatly increases its market value, even though I might sell a nearly identical image of the same car for a very average cost.

Unfortunately over time the web has fostered a perception that images are free and can be copied and re-posted at will. Yes we all do it, we find a picture of a really ugly dog and post it on our face book page and everyone laughs and we never think about the technical violation of copyright involved. In practical fact the owner of that image could if they choose make an issue out of it but typical incidental copying and reposting is understood to be a "fair use" of the image even though it falls slightly outside the technical definition of fair use under copyright.

If however we know that the image was shot by a photographer who either professionally or as an amateur presents him/herself as a "photographer" you can and should assume that he is not freely releasing the image into the public domain, especially if on his/her web site you see advisories such as "All images are copy right xyz" or "all rights reserved" or (c) those are legally defined statements that the person making that assertion owns the rights for reproduction of the image that fall outside fair use doctrine.

What is fair use? In its simplest form it is one of 3 uses which the public good is better served by wide distribution of the image. The three aspects usually used are:
"is it news"
"is it educational" (ie pictures I have posted here showing parachute mounts or other safety related images"
"is it incidental as a minor illustration in an article or commentary"
etc.

If on the other hand the image usage leads to some form of gain or advantage to the person displaying it such as marketing a product or as an illustration on a poster or T shirt , then it is not fair use and should have a formal release for that usage with the exact rights licensed and any restrictions on usage that the copyright owner might wish to stipulate.

For example the images I submitted to Land Speed Louise for her consideration in her soon to be released book, she required I sign a copyright release giving her legal permission for the intended usage in her book.

All anyone is asking for is that folks try to play fair with intellectual property rights that the photographers both legally have and that there  is a moral obligation to give them fair credit for their work. That compensation can be in any form the photographer is willing to accept. In my case for Save the Salt my compensation would be the "smile factor" that I am helping out a good cause, which is the same compensation I got for donating images for use in the SCTA rookie book.

[hotrod]

These folks need to understand that the entire reason we are all there is for the machines to run, not for them to get pictures. If no one were there to run, there would be no pictures. A little respect would go a long way here, and being aware of the situation around them would show that respect.

Good point and one of the reasons I strongly avoid hovering near the racers as they get ready to push off. I consider that last 20-30 ft zone to the starting line a no go zone, as it could cost someone his life if your distraction to "get your shot" causes a crew member to miss a vital safety check!

A couple years ago I watched as some duffer photographer placed himself between the push truck and the race car to get a shot down the track after the crew were loading in the truck and the push truck driver had to honk his horn to get the guy to move so he could push off his running race car before it over heated on the line.

I also avoid getting in the crews face while they are working on the car in the pits and often ask "mind if I take a picture inside the car" or something similar. On several occasions I have been told "no" they were in the middle of doing something critical like packing chutes etc. and come back in 5 min or what ever.

The only reason that those cars and bikes are there is to run down the course and anything you do that screws up or interferes with that privilege that they "paid for" is wrong!

[PorkPie]

A lot of good and important comments.

About copyrights and the issue of using the picture on commercial media's or social nets.

For myself...to each picture CD I give away is a instruction letter....

it tells that the picture are ONLY for private use....which means to make prints for himself and for crew member....this picture getting NO watermark on

NO USE in any magazine, on websites (also not team websites) and especially on social nets like Facebook, Flickr....NO KIND of Commercial use.

If some like to use it commercial or on the web HE HAS TO CONTACT ME IN ADVANCE and I make than the decision if I like to get a royalty....sometimes when I know what the "customer" like to do with the picture....I prepare him the one with the right data size.

AND I ask a for a donation for my work and P&P plus material......just to cover a small percentage of my expenses to come to the salt.....unfortunately I'm not living in the states and especially race teams from overseas knows the cost to come over the pond.....this donation is not specified....when a racer who runs his vehicle on a real shoestring budget I'm happy when I got from him only a couple of dollars.....if they are swimming in money it could be more

But my experience looks not that well at it could be....

- no thank you....when you ask if they got the CD....oh, yes I got them....nice picture...
- no donation....for what....is sometimes the answer when you request something

interested on this....I'm getting from the low budget teams very often the big donation....and the wealthy are the one to forget the thanks...

more worse

- I found my picture one to one on Facebook with the original data size of 10-12 MB....unblocked...could be download from everyone...when I spoke to the owner of the Facebook account he starts to be aggressive and nasty....by the way...he had also given no donation....

- I found my picture on team websites....one team owner had done all 96 picture he had gotten on his website with NO CREDIT....when I told him that I'm not happy with this, he gave me the s h i t.....

- I found my picture in magazines...without a credit to me.....for one magazine I found out that the team owner who gave the picture to the magazine was paid for...but the money never showed up on my place.


This are some example of bad experience I had over the years.....


I have also to say....there are LOTS OF POSITIVE examples....teams and people who give great donations....and helped when I was in a bad situation....there are some they gave me money, also they had not gotten picture, they just mention "that you can come back to the salt".....and there are some who done much more for me...they gave me the gift to turn a dream into reality...

And these are the one who let me coming back again and again every year to make the picture for the racers.....yes, on the end of the year I'm bankrupt....who cares....


Important is that I be out there....on the end of the measured mile.....and frame the racers....


Sorry, that this was also a very private note to this thread......Hot Rod and Ray the Rat got it as just the facts.....but I had the interest to tell the experience from someone who is 30+ years at the salt and 17 years behind the camera for the racers (before I done only picture for myself).

Maybe it can help to get a better understanding between racers and photographers....and as Rocky Robinson wrote a while ago in his column....the photographers are the once who frame the history...otherwise there would be only words.....



 

[PorkPie]

Starting line....

as a photographer you have to see that you can "disturb" the starting activities or not....some racers & teams can't get you around.....other it is exactly opposite...some drivers likes that you come over and shake your hands or like to give you the thumb up.....

but a experience photographer will see this, what he can do or not....

Meanwhile, I was also now behind the wheel.....for myself....I had no problem with if someone was coming along...done picture....shake my hand...I concentrate myself for my drive from the inside....yes...and I slept on the starting line.....

....but this is me....and other driver/rider are different.....they can't need any kind of disturb....the heartbeat is up on top level....they are focusing on everything....but this is their way.....

...and as a photographer you have to respect this....

...and if you can't go close....use the long gun and you can get your picture, too...without disturbing


To all, have a safe and successful season at the salt....

I will be back for the 2013 season....so see you soon

[jimmy six]

Thanks Hot Rod and Pork Pie....as an owner and driver don't come up to us 2 back and suited up. My son and I both "drive" the run when we are close and know not to disturb each other. I also don't honk if you get in the way. I will hit you, my son is nicer than I.

If someone wants info from us, impound (if we are lucky) or the pits are fine. I too have no problem sleeping waiting even at SpeedWeek.. It's the way I stay calm. . . . Looking forward to a spectating week and will probably wish I had the roadster there.............JD

[Cameradude]

Hey Guys,

Won't be long now. Thanks to all who have posted comments on behavior and ethics. Great comments.

My experience has been mostly positive. HOWEVER, I do long distance stills and video ( at least try) and last year on two instances some yellow shirt moved my camera, lens and tripod out of their way ( back to starting line) after I had taken much time setting up out of the way of the starting line shooters and racers. Jim Jensen told me that I was set up properly ( not in line of fire or safety issues) . I do my best to be out of line of sight but need to be able to focus 1-3 miles down the track. I did manage to get some good shot of spins ( Blowfish for one) and wobbles in the wet spot. 

 I guess i should be thankful my stuff wasn't stolen.  Other than these instances, the photographic experiences are priceless on the salt.  Thanks to all the cool staff and media.

There, i cleared my mind.  See you all in a couple weeks.

Cameradude, aka Larry Crosby

[SabreTooth]

Many thanks to the professionals for the wholly appropriate reminders, especially with respect to generally getting in the way at the start line. I like to think I take care not get in people's shots, that I do look before I leap and that I stay out of the way of somebody's preparations but it doesn't hurt to get a reminder now and again.

We all like to see great pictures, please keep them coming.

I hope to see you all in just a few days (yes, I'm counting)...

Best regards and thanks,


Jim (keen amateur photographer at best)

[Dr Goggles]

Someone should put some wheels on this soapbox.