Lug nut and Aluminum wheel question.

[Steve Walters]

Nathan,


In 2010 when teching SCTA cars at Speed Week, I brought this up when a lakester with my same wheels came into tech.  I asked the seasonsed veteran I was teching with about the lack of clarity in the rule book, he said that if they are tapered the washer rule does'nt apply.  I have been wanting to make the rule more clear, cause I can put on the manufacturers bulge tapered nuts, and then one at a time replace them with the 1" lug nuts, and steel washers, but I don't feel good about running the car this way.  I will bring a wheel and lug combo's to speed week, and when you have some slack time will disuss the problem with you and maybe some new wording I will submit to the rules committee.

I will be teching bikes again this year.

Steve 

[Kiwi Paul]

Steve--I think most of us in Tech would like to get together and hear/see your ideas. Have you run any of this past Kiwi Steve yet?

[Steve Walters]

No, DW and I discussed it at length at WOS in 2009. When I was teching at SW in 2010 Steve put me with a seasoned SCTA tech that told me the one inch nut, plate, or washers, didn't apply with tapered lug aluminum wheels.  I assumed that since we were looking at the same wheels on a lakester, and he passed tech, that my fuzzy rule understanding went away.  Seen them on a lot more cars since then using the conical seat lug nuts.

Steve       

[NathanStewart]

Seems pretty back and white in the book... If the nut touches the wheel you gotta have something behind it. Only exception I've seen are aluminum racing wheels that have steel rings/inserts in them.

The idea that someone else passed tech with xyz on their car doesn't automatically mean xyz is now legal for all other cars. There have been cars that have gotten through tech for many many years with undersized tubing. Just because those cars got through tech doesn't make all other cars with undersized tubing legal now.

[jlmccuan]

So, how would aluminum wheels with the UniLug tapered washer and tapered with a straight shank be called?

[jimmy six]

It appears from your photos that a "tapered" lug is being screwed on to a FLAT uniwasher. I would never do that. The edges just by normal tightening would bow out. The unilug wheels I have had used a flat edge on the lug to press on the uniwasher.

You would be better off the make bushings from lugs and then putting the unilug washer and additional thicker large diameter washer under a 1" lug flat side down. You should have plenty of room for that with longer studs...Good Luck

[Ron Gibson]

Depending on the speed expected, I don't think I would even entertain the thought about running unilug wheels at speed on the salt or even cast wheels for that matter.

Just my $.02
Ron

[jlmccuan]

I just used a pic I found.  My UniLugs have tapered steel washers.  There 2 washers available, 1 with the hole centered, and 1 with the offset.  By turning the washer around you get 4.5" spacing and 5" spacing.  The centered washers give you 4.75" spacing.  The washers are a good fit on the ID for the shank of the nut, and the tapered section.  I suppose you could flip the washers to use a flat nut seat, but I prefer the tapered.

I should have used a pic like this.

[Steve Walters]

The wheels and lugs I have are not unilug wheels, they are made by Center Line and called auto drag, Summit sells them under their name as D-force II's.  They use a conical seat bulge lug nut, and there is no way they are going to pull through a 3/4" thick aluminum wheel with a side load.  Nathan there are a lot of things that change with technoligy, if the Swiss would have excepted that, they would still have the world market on watches.   

Steve   

[Steve Walters]

Once again I find myself assuming incorrectly.  I was loading the wheel into my truck, and noticed it says made in china on the back.  I figured they were centerline wheels, because they look just like the centerline wheels, unless the centerline auto drags are made in china also, they must be chinese knock offs sold by summit.     They seem to be a very solid built race wheel though, I trust them a lot more than a two piece wheel.

Steve   

[dw230]

Summit, Jegs, Harbor Freight  - all same same. Pay your money, take your chanes.

DW

[Steve Walters]

Geee's Dan don't try to cheer me up, now I got to check out my Summit ignition, I thought it was a Mallory, just cause it looks just like a Mallory.  I can honestly say everything else on my car is USA, wait the T-56 has metric bolts hooking it up to the adaptor plate, and my crew chief was made in New Zealand.   

Steve

   

[NathanStewart]

Nathan there are a lot of things that change with technoligy, if the Swiss would have excepted that, they would still have the world market on watches.    

Steve, I'm not sure where technology comes into play on a cast aluminum wheel and 5 studs/nuts.  Isn't that 100+ year old "technology"? 

They use a conical seat bulge lug nut, and there is no way they are going to pull through a 3/4" thick aluminum wheel with a side load.

You may be right about the lug nuts not pulling through a 3/4" thick aluminum wheel but we as inspectors inspect to the book... and Rule 1A tells us that we inspect to the book - no more, no less.  I believe 1A was originally intended to "protect" competitors from being forced to comply with unwritten rules, as such.  1A is a double edge sword in that it does limit the reach of any one tech inspector but it then forces us to rely heavily on the printed word in the rule book.  Subsequent to that, this now means the rule book must be right and tight and things like lug nuts on aluminum wheels may need to be looked at closer.  Are your wheels exempt from the washer/plate rule?  Maybe in practice they might be but by the words in the book, which we tech to, they aren't. 

To be further discussed while winding down in tech after the storm of cars has passed and we miserable inspectors enjoy some fuel samples... see ya on the salt.

 

[jacksoni]

Nathan there are a lot of things that change with technoligy, if the Swiss would have excepted that, they would still have the world market on watches.    

Steve, I'm not sure where technology comes into play on a cast aluminum wheel and 5 studs/nuts.  Isn't that 100+ year old "technology"? 

They use a conical seat bulge lug nut, and there is no way they are going to pull through a 3/4" thick aluminum wheel with a side load.

You may be right about the lug nuts not pulling through a 3/4" thick aluminum wheel but we as inspectors inspect to the book... and Rule 1A tells us that we inspect to the book - no more, no less.  I believe 1A was originally intended to "protect" competitors from being forced to comply with unwritten rules, as such.  1A is a double edge sword in that it does limit the reach of any one tech inspector but it then forces us to rely heavily on the printed word in the rule book.  Subsequent to that, this now means the rule book must be right and tight and things like lug nuts on aluminum wheels may need to be looked at closer.  Are your wheels exempt from the washer/plate rule?  Maybe in practice they might be but by the words in the book, which we tech to, they aren't. 

To be further discussed while winding down in tech after the storm of cars has passed and we miserable inspectors enjoy some fuel samples... see ya on the salt.

 

Unfortunately, even 1A does not protect you from the "our interpretation is" aspect of some teching (and some paragraphs of the rule book). Which became a "change it" directive (or you fail tech). (And got the same answer from chief inspector for what that is worth) Anyway, there are a  lot of spots where clarification would save some grief, I expect. Everyone is just doing the best they can and I appreciate what the inspectors do trying to save my sorry neck.

[xxobuick]

A sample of what actually passes tech at speed week.  5, 3/8 bolts holding on the wheel.  Also many cars racing that hat taper seat lug nuts only.