Author Topic: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)  (Read 6676 times)

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Offline SteveM

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I have a work-related project that has posed an interesting question...

Can anyone think of an automotive A/C compressor clutch that uses a cogged (timing belt style) pulley?

We are trying to drive a payout platter for some band saw coil stock, and I had a vision.  If I could come up with a relatively inexpensive clutch drive system that uses a cogged belt, the problem would be 80% solved.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Steve.
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Offline rouse

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2013, 12:06:02 PM »
Buy a Clutch and put a pulley on it. Problem solved.

Rouse
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Offline RichFox

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2013, 12:06:31 PM »
Remove the existing pulley and replace it with a cog pulley? I use pulleys from OHC cars and motorcycles. Honda Gold Wing pulleys are a nice size.

Offline SteveM

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 12:11:37 PM »
I'm going to check my stash of various compressors, alternators, starters, and pulleys to see what I can come up with.

Keeping my fingers crossed for an off-the-shelf solution.

Steve.
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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 12:39:37 PM »
McMaster -Carr, you could just about build a space shuttle out of thier cats. :-D
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Offline SteveM

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 02:20:23 PM »
Yes, my credit card is on file at McMaster.  Just today, I received a bunch of brass barbed hose fittings, 25 feet of 3/4 ID clear PVC hose, and some m10 studs.  The hoses and fittings are for my intercooler and oil cooler setups.

Steve.
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Offline Crackerman

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 03:14:07 PM »
most any japanese dohc car will have a cogged belt, drive and idler pulleys.

mitsu 4g63 is a nice piece...

Offline SteveM

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 03:20:35 PM »
Cogged belt for the A/C compressor on a Japanese DOHC?  I can picture it for the timing belt, but my mind's eye doesn't see it for the accessores.

Steve.
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Offline Tman

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 03:26:44 PM »
Just looked a a 96 Accord we have sitting here as a spare beater and all the belts are normal serp belts not cogged.

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 03:39:40 PM »
Sounds like you need a Mad Max blower pulley clutch.  :-D
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Offline bearingburner

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 04:24:36 PM »
How much Hp are you trying to transmit and what RPM range ? Instant start and stop?

Offline RichFox

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2013, 04:35:43 PM »
I have used Pinto, Nissan, Honda Gold Wing, Fiat and Lotus wheels and belts for driving oil and fuel pumps as well as other stuff around here. Same pitch on all of them. Dayton or Gates have many belts of many lengths to go between the pulleys. Your Accord must have a cam chain and standard belts for the accessories. I have never seen timing belts used for alternators or water pumps on OEM cars. The Fiat had a toothed pulley for the alternator, I think.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 04:48:53 PM by RichFox »

Offline SteveM

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2013, 04:49:49 PM »
This is like 1/2 HP, maybe 100 rpms, but a lot of start and stop cycles.

I'm just trying to figure out if there is something common and cheap that will work as a test.

Right now, I'm thinking of using a "regular" multi rib v-belt with an A/C compressor clutch on the part that needs to be driven, and an alternator pulley mounted to a small DC motor on the drive side.

Steve.
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Offline Jon

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2013, 07:40:24 PM »
If timing isn't important (guessing not with a clutch engagement) a serpentine or v belt to fit your standard clutch will transmit as much power as the clutch will be happy with.
Is there other items run in the same belt that require timing?

jon
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Offline JimL

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Re: Noodle-Scratcher automotive question (not specifically LSR related)
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 01:05:27 AM »
Start with an a/c compressor to give you the stable crankshaft.  Those elec-magnetic clutches run only about .008-.014" clearance, so there is an important shim setting under the pressure plate (on the crankshaft where it comes thru the pulley carrier bearing.  You will need to find a cog pulley large enough to fit over the original a/c belt.  You CANNOT cantilever the load on that center idler bearing in the clutch package.  You will turn the outside of the plate blue (been there, tried that).  Some of the small cars have smaller pulley OD, so you might be able to find the combination.

I would try to find a 10P type (has five cylinders  running lengthwise) with pistons on a swash plate.  Take out the pistons (they just slide off the swash plate as you slide the shaft out), open up the side of the case just inboard of the rear bearing.  Put your smaller cog pulley in the opened case and take the drive from the swash shaft to your work.  You may need to put sealed bearings on each end, if it is not so equipped.  

You could try putting power into the small pulley and going to your work from the larger outer pulley but that could multiply the load against the clutch....might smoke it?  I would probably do my speed control off-board, so to speak.  This would prevent clutch slip from creating speed variance within your time controlled operation.

This gets you a very stable elec-mag clutch drive that can be run through a fog light relay and small 12v power source.  You can put a spring loaded idler in the power transmission pulleys, with a microswitch that gets triggered if load deflects a belt too far.  The switch takes the relay control power to ground,
popping an inline fuse and causing the relay to shut off and release the clutch.

....hope I am understanding what youre trying to do.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 01:07:01 AM by JimL »