Author Topic: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.  (Read 13311 times)

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Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2013, 09:35:37 PM »
Now that is purty slick. The latch for the "gate" could be interconnected to the door. Notice how the gate is inside the outer plain of the cage. Not tring to be a pain but I wouldn't mount the gate to the door other than some sort of breakaway latch connection so the door could be unlatched as the gate is unlatched. Just tryin' to help.
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Offline Bob Drury

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2013, 10:33:28 PM »
  That would be tough to do with two different pivot points, and the pivot point for the cage would need to be within the outer perameters of the Cage.   Bob
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Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2013, 02:05:11 AM »
JHN, after thinking about it some more I think there's certainly some merit to a single action that opens both the gate and the door while trying to exit the vehicle.  What you obviously don't want, by having the gate some how linked to the door, is if the door is opened unintentionally that it allows the gate to open and obviously if the door is torn off that the gate not go with it. 

Also, FWIW to add in my personal opinion, I'm not so hot on these door gates honestly.  IMO there's too good a chance of those things getting pinched shut or wedged closed when the cage gets knocked around in an impact.  Just my opinion.  I'm not a door slammer guy so maybe I'm spoiled by not having to deal with nets.

FWIW #2, I inspected the McD&P car last year and did a bail out with the tall one (forget which is who or who is which) and they got through tech without a hitch.  No punches thrown, no obscenities yelled. 
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2013, 09:15:10 AM »
Nathan, thanks for piping in on this one.

I'll be doing my "bail out" practicing in the next couple of weeks.  I've got a procedure I intend develop into "muscle memory". 

Tell us "door slammers" what you're looking for on a demonstration bail out.

Thanks.

Chris
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2013, 08:20:36 PM »
I hope is illustrated in the above photos is legal because its the best I've ever seen for a coupe or enclosed car. ..J.D.
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline Tman

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2013, 10:07:19 AM »
There was a white Firebird? We looked at in tech that had a swing out cage. I beieve we talked about it here after Speedweek? Very sano.

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2013, 04:35:11 PM »
Tell us "door slammers" what you're looking for on a demonstration bail out.

Hi Chris, sorry for the delay... you've asked a good question that I want to answer.  Obviously we want to make sure that you can get out of the vehicle "quickly" in an emergency but you obviously need to have pulled your chute(s), shut off the fuel, clicked off the ignition, and come to a stop before you exit the vehicle.  We want to see you go through the motions of doing all those things. 

Here are some examples of things to think about:

A lot of folks put their switches on their dash and then plop in the car and when asked to reach them they stick their arm out and say "look... see, I can reach them fine".  Then we suit them up and put their limb restraints on and ask them to reach for the ignition switch.  They stick their arm out and then bam, the limb restraints holds them back and they can barely touch the switch with tip of their gloved finger and the typical response is "oh, well I've never checked it with the limb restraints on before".

A lot of folks mount their chute release from the top of their roll cage and over somewhere to the side.  And of course they can sit in the car, turn their head, see the release and reach over and pull it but you can't do that when you're fully suited up, belted in with a H&NR on.  I've done the "you're getting warmer.... warmer... oh you're hot.... oops too far now you're cold" game and they're in there waving their hand around trying to find the chute release they can no longer see.  Oh and a lot of time the release is just far enough away that they can't get to it with the limb restraints on. 

Same thing with fire extinguisher actuators... don't put them where you can't see them or easily find them.  Know where these safety items are.

Don't complain that your left arm limb restraint is being adjusted too short and not being able to undo the door net... you undo your belts before you take the net down.  Also, when the tech inspector says "ok, you're on fire... bail out!" the first thing you shouldn't do is take your gloves off.... I see that a lot actually. 

We want to make sure that you're relatively cool, calm, and collected and know what to do if something goes wrong.  You should also practice exactly as you would as if you were in the car getting ready to make a run - have everything on.  At the May El Mirage I did a bail out on a new car and I'm sure the driver had practiced many times but for whatever reason once he was in the car with full race gear on he couldn't get out.  Sometimes its as simple as what shoes you wear.  Your rubber soled street shoes probaby grip fine on the clean floor when you practice at home but put your fire suit booties on and throw some wet salt in the car and all of a sudden you're slipping and sliding and can't get out. 

Oh and of course, we're looking to see that your belts are mounted correctly and that we can adjust them.  The single most common belt problem is leaving the straps too long and running the buckle into the stitching as you tighten them down.  Once you hit the stitching you can't go any tighter and if the belts aren't tight enough you'll have to adjust them.  I've held people up from starting on their run because the belts wouldn't tighten up completely.   

Last but not least, it isn't a race to see how quickly you can get out.  Take your time... slow and steady wins the race.  Be methodical.  Don't thrash and then panic when you get hung up because you're trying to rip yourself out of the car.  Pull the belts off slowly.  Make sure everything is fully released.  Get the door net down and out of the way.  Take your time - be methodical - don't thrash. 
   
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Offline Glen

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2013, 04:50:36 PM »
Something not mentioned is if the vehicle has stoped after the crash and upside down it's almost imposable to release the harness, If you can you will then fall on your head and in a heap trying to get out. Having been on the emergency response team for several years
I have seen this issue a few times. The Fire-rescue is usually at the scene with in 1 to 2 minutes, as well as the patrols. There first reaction is to assure there is no fire. In many cases the vehicle has to be up righted to get the driver unhooked and to check for injuries before trying to assist in the removal.
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Offline Milwaukee Midget

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2013, 05:11:29 PM »
Nathan, thanks.  I appreciate the thoughtfulness you put into that response.


Chris
"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  :roll:

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2013, 06:25:37 PM »
  Nathan, I wish their was a section in our rulebook for "Common Sense" answers like yours.  It's a damn shame that only you and Dan have the Cajones to post frequently on our site.
  I understand all the Politics, Privacy and Personality issues, but I wish the SCTA/BNI hierarchy would understand just how important this site is to EVERY COMPETITOR WHO DOESN'T LIVE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA or doesn't belong to a member club.
                                                               Thanx again, Bob
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Offline Jonny Hotnuts

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2013, 11:53:48 PM »
I agree with the above BD statement.


On that note I feel there SHOULD be a PNW club. I hereby elect Bob as the acting club president (my idea so my authority to appoint).

As far as a name....well...."The Hotnuts Band of Ne'er-Do-Wels'' has a sweet ring to it. I am open for suggestions.....

~JH
jonny_hotnuts@hotmail.com

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*Andres Segovia
(when Im not working on the car, I am ususally playing classical guitar)

Offline Captthundarr

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »
X2 on BD. everyone benefits.
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C/GALT 137.65 Ohio Mile check that 144.12 2013, AA/GALT 159.34 Ohio Mile 2014. B/GALT 180.577 RECORD 6/15

Offline Tman

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2013, 10:48:00 AM »
Something not mentioned is if the vehicle has stoped after the crash and upside down it's almost imposable to release the harness, If you can you will then fall on your head and in a heap trying to get out. Having been on the emergency response team for several years
I have seen this issue a few times. The Fire-rescue is usually at the scene with in 1 to 2 minutes, as well as the patrols. There first reaction is to assure there is no fire. In many cases the vehicle has to be up righted to get the driver unhooked and to check for injuries before trying to assist in the removal.

You will only undo your belt once if upside down and you forget to put your hand on the roof! Me "Mike before you undo your seatbel......" Mike "THUD! OUCH!" Brand new upside down Jeep.  :-D

Offline jimmy six

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2013, 11:25:21 AM »
Nathan answer is one of the best I have seen written down. For many years as an inspector, even before bailouts were mandentory, I would check to see where all switches and levers were placed for an emergency, not normal, shut down. Many had to move their devices after the bailouts were started.

One of the biggest problems I encountered was how few drivers had sat in their vehicle at home and practiced with all safety gear on. To tell the truth it was embarresing for them and their crew man putting the driver in the seat. Some belts were not adjusted close at all. This caused a longer wait for those behind in line.

The other thing was some felt they were under some "time" limit which I assured them they WERE NOT when I was incharge. Their instruction was to shut down the car as quickly as they could, accuate fire protection as needed and remove themselves safely from the vehicle. People standing arround watching was not a help at times. For coupes I would normally watch for the opposite side door if I could. After my instruction most were a lot better settled and knew I was there to help and not hinder. Nathan is that way and it does make a difference.

Every rear before Bonneville or El Mirage I practice at home suited up and I've driven the same car for 33 years. Learning what was best with a Hans at home meant I would know what to do under pressure after an incident.

I would not allow my son to drive his dirt car without a head/neck device and we recently changed his belts to the 2" over the Hans where he had 3"  and I can tell you 2" is much better for the driver. None one in his organization checks any bail out but you can bet Patrick has practiced many times. Just like pulling himself in the seat. I sometimes feel it's Bob Higbee hands touching his as he pulls himself in.

Everyone reading Nathan's note should take heed and practice until you can do it all blind folded. It may save your life....Thanks Nathan.................JD
First GMC 6 powered Fuel roadster over 200, with 2 red hats. Pit crew for Patrick Tone's Super Stock #49 Camaro

Offline thundersalt

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Re: Limb restraint and lateral head bar fun.
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2013, 12:10:56 PM »
Something else to consider: Get (or stay) in shape! Take it from me, someone who was large and completely out of shape, getting in and out of any race car fully suited up was difficult and almost claustrophobic. Now being of normal size and in shape (especially core strenght) getting in and out is a breeze. Also, since I brought this up, I always wondered how well saftey harnesses would work on 300+ lbs.
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