roll cage

[Peckerwood]

 Some great pictures and info on new NASCAR spec. roll cage,nobody knows roll cages better then NASCAR.

 Google Mac's Motor City Garage, scroll down and click on technology, then click previous post, for Sept. 2012.

 Very detailed pics and discussion.

 Not a gusset in sight.

               J Y/B
 

[Peter Jack]

You don't like the rules, then go run with NASCAR. Most of the serious safety rules in lsr have been developed through experience.

Pete

[fastman614]

 Some great pictures and info on new NASCAR spec. roll cage,nobody knows roll cages better then NASCAR.

 Google Mac's Motor City Garage, scroll down and click on technology, then click previous post, for Sept. 2012.

 Very detailed pics and discussion.

 Not a gusset in sight.

               J Y/B
 

In Landspeed racing, gussets have been a point of contention for many years.... It remains my contention that the gussets were originally only to have been applied to roadster style cages.... and, on coupe style cages, at the roof area horizontals to horizontals (which, apparently, was according to NASCAR specs of the 1980s)

It is also my contention that, if a 2013 style NASCAR spec caged car was to show up "unannounced", most inspectors would, at first glance, fail it - due to the lack of gussets.... my advice to anyone who would build a car with a cage constructed to new NASCAR specs - you had better get the right people within the SCTA/BNI to look over the design and "bless it" before coming to the salt....

[dw230]

Fastman 614,

Please reread rule 1.A in your 2013 rulebook.

Peckerman(?),

This is not NASCAR, if the NASCAR cage went to Indy - ? -

I don't know how many years you have in motorsports but, you race with the rulebook of the guys paying at the window at the end of the day.

May I suggest that you take an active part of the rule process, check the last paragraph on page 1 of your 2013 rulebook for the procedure.

DW

[Peckerwood]

 
 Gee I did not intend to kick the hornets nest.

 D.W. 

  I built my first Hot Rod  a 27 T in 1955.

  I manufactured racing motorcycle parts for 20 years, ran full page ads in cycle magazines.

  I have been a machinist,fabricator, machine designer for 45 years.

  My intent in showing the NASCAR cage was you might see some features that are helpful in your build.

  I believe you can take ideas from other venues, Formula 1, drag racing etc.and apply them to your project.

  Atlanta Ga. was the center of NASCAR in the fifties and sixties.

  Fonty Flock brother Tim, most of that era engine and car builders were in Atl,and I spent many hours as a teenager hanging around there shops,

  joined by another young man who was just in love with cars as I was Courtney Hizer.

  These roundy round boys have some good ideas also, and it does no harm to look at what others are doing.

  DW we swilled a few cold ones together under Courtney and Villa's tent.

      J Y/B

 

[kiwi belly tank]

Unlike NASCAR's DW, our DW bites!
  Sid.

[Peckerwood]

 
 I was good friends with Hiram (Buster) Couch,who is from Decatur GA.

 He was NHRA starter for years.Talk about a mean official, Buster  bit most of a guy's ear off in a bar fight,and spit it in his face.

 He had that ability to strike fear in a dragracers heart.

 John Reed of Reed Cams, also from Decatur, was in my high school class,I spent time  helping him  in his drag racing days in the fifties.

 He is in the NHRA hall of fame along with "Sneaky" Pete Robinson.

 I bought some of Pete's machine tools after his accident,1972 I think it was, still use the drill press.

       J Y/B

   

[desotoman]

Peckerwood,

First don't worry I won't bite. LOL.  This is just for general information for you. The SCTA has roll cage rules that have to apply to the surfaces the SCTA runs events on and those are Salt and Dirt.

Some roll cages tend to dig in on the dirt surface, which has in the past literally ripped the roll cage off the vehicle. As I recall it was after one of those accidents that the gussets were made mandatory.

Hope that helps,

Tom G.

[Peter Jack]

Sorry if I was a little abrupt but it just annoys me when someone starts in a new form of racing and the first thing they want to do is change the rules to suit how they feel they should be written. I've been through a bunch of different types of racing myself and have been fabricating race cars and parts along with some motorcycle stuff since I was a teenager. I've always found the entry to a new form of racing a little smoother if I ask a lot of questions and take a look at how the rules are interpreted before I dive in. Once I've established some credibility I can then question how things are done and maybe get a favourable interpretation. Your dumping on the gusset rule just twisted me the wrong way after a bit of a challenging day.

Pete

[Peckerwood]

 I appreciate your post Peter,I probable worded my comments wrong.

 We are getting Canada like weather here today, and I am in Georgia.

 Our little town got two very destructive tornadoes in two years, neighbors still repairing if they have anything to left to repair.

       J Y/B

 

             

[Rex Schimmer]

This is the reply I posted on the site showing the (new) NASCAR cage design.

NASCAR cages are almost completely dependent on the bending strength of each tube as they bend and collapse in a crash. The design has very few diagonals that can distribute crash loads through out the chassis efficiently. The NASCAR approach, as shown by the addition of the new “brow bar” in front of the top halo’s front bar, is to add additional tubes that provide additional bending strength rather that attempt to transfer the crash loads to the rest of the chassis. It works for them and they know the car weights, and speeds and just add tubing until the cage can carry the crash loads. An FEA analysis of this chassis would be interesting. Lots of highly loaded weld joints and tubes in bending.

They are not structurally efficient but they do a fair job for the cars that NASCAR runs, and as I said if they need to be stronger just add more tubing. I also happen not be a supporter of the SCTA flat gusset rule as it is presently written and think that I may take DW up on his suggestion.

Rex

[Peckerwood]

  Rex,

  NASCAR is always try to make the car as light as possible,opposite of land racing, especially in parts high up in the car.

  I was once told I could never build airplanes,they would be to heavy to get off the ground.

  If weight is not a factor I always over build.

  If a little bit is good, too much is just right.

  I understand the purpose of the flat gussets in an open car,door slammer is a different animal.

  Thanks for your input.

                J Y/B

   
 

[Buickguy3]

     Peckerwood,
    Speaking of "Buster" Couch, He was a cool guy. I bought a brick in the walkway at Garlit's museum that is adjacent to the Couch Family memorial brick. He was the starter at Seattle when we won the Fall Nationals in Seattle in stock class. You had to be ready to run when you came to the starting line or be ready to go home when he was the starter.
   Doug 

[Peckerwood]

 Buick Guy
 No body ever argued with Buster,when he told someone to do something they did.

          J Y/B

 

[tauruck]

I thought the brow bar was to prevent other cars coming in through the windshield area. I don't know a thing about the rules/rule book regarding salt racing but the NASCAR guys crash every weekend and if ever there was a real test of roll cage integrity, that must be it.That being said you need to abide by the rules of the sanctioning body.