Test rule change case

[Nortonist 592]

this comes under the heading of what do I know.  Reading the rule, to me at least, it appears that the blower must be driven by the engine.  A blower driven by by an electric motor from a battery would be illegal.  A blower driven by an electric motor driven by an alternator driven by the primary engine would still not be right.  The alternator is driving the electric motor not the primary engine.  This is heading the way of the 654cc [from the factory] BSA.  If I deduct the .020 overbore allowed then I'm back under the 650 limit.  Its merely twisting words to suit an idea.  That it should be brought up as a rule change is wrong and smacks of other things [nudge, nudge,wink,wink].

[Dean Los Angeles]

Way back in the dim recesses of my head I remember a guy who yanked the heater blower from his truck, duct taped it on his Harley and cherry picked his way to a record.

The rule should be re-written to state "mechanically or exhaust gas driven by the engine"

If you still want to cherry pick you can run a tiny smog blower, can't you?

For the serious record attempts, I think all blower power should come from the engine. No stored energy. To make it easier on the inspectors, the electric blower would have to be powered by a power source separate from the engine electical. So on a typical blown car that has a battery to start the engine and an alternator to make power, require another alternator that is clearly not connected to the battery.

We have a constant struggle to stay with our roots and only allow "traditional" engines, yet stay cutting edge and encourage the boundless minds out there that have a better idea to set a record.

Oh, and if you are looking to get a different feel of a long topic, read everything, then read it again skipping JackD's posts. Jack is truly knowledgeable, but your head tends to spin less when you read it the second time.

[Nortonist 592]

Rulle 4.ff states that the blower must be driven by the "primary engine".  An alternator powering an electric motor that drives the blower means the blower is not being driven by the "primary motor" unless you have your drive shaft hooked up to the electric motor.  Then, as the rule is now written all would be legal.  As I said earlier,  twisting words.

[dwarner]

As promised here is the website:

www.turbodyne.com - not a very good site, has not been updated since 2005. Look at the questions in the FAQ section. No pictures in the product section. I'll try to find a picture to post.

Good input so far. One thing to remember is if it is not legal for one class it is not necessarily legal for another class. Meaning that since this system has been determined to be illegal in the blown class as the current rules are written it cannot be installed and then claim to be an unblown entry.

Scott, too late on the tossed belt scenario, I posed that question to Marlo Triet several years ago when he had trouble keeping belts on his motor.

He misssed the joke at first, came around after cocktail hour.

DW

[Dynoroom]

I posed that question to Marlo Triet several years ago when he had trouble keeping belts on his motor.

He misssed the joke at first, came around after cocktail hour.

DW

I think he bought about 6-8 belts that week @ $380 ea. I'll bet 3000 bucks took his since of humor for a minute or two...

And people wonder why I run turbos

[landracing]

I havent found a picture yet but I did find a lawsuit against them.

http://www.wyca.com/complnts/turbo.htm

Not much on their website at all...

Jon

[Dynoroom]

Not much on their website at all...

Jon


There might be a reason for that.

[edweldon]

I seem to recall way back in the 60's reading in a hot rod mag about a creative fellow who had set up a blown gasser with a 6-71 mounted in the trunk driven by some kind of small 4 cylinder engine.  My fuzzy recollection of this was that the idea was outlawed for safety reasons.  I think the concern was that in case of an accident, blown engine or some other failure you could have this engine driven compressor still running and pumping large quantities of explosive fuel air mixture when that?s the last thing you'd want happening.  So I think that a blower that derives its driving energy from any source other than the primary vehicle engine it feeds probably is bad from a safety standpoint unless you can convince yourself to trust any controls that will shut it off when the main engine quits.......Ed Weldon

[JackD]

I am flattered all of you followed my first post on this subject so closely.
Even with the dramatic license that some of you took to outline your presentation,
 your basic restating of my facts has given me hope for you.
 Although you have a ways to go , I see better things in your future.
Publication here is a good exercise and really helps.
As Scott so cleverly says "I think we have a wiener."

NEXT

[jimmy six]

Ed W ..That gasser did exsist and worked well. The engine in the trunk powered the 6-71 with the tubes going thru the car to the primary engine. The combo was being put in a dragster and marriage and family stopped it all..A reader of this site knows all about it...J.D.

[Dean Los Angeles]

Google image search for Turbopac:

[dwarner]

Thats it Dean. Any other info from your google search?

DW

[Sumner]

Thats it Dean. Any other info from your google search?

DW

Dan the following is from a link ( http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-AIR/1998/May/Day-14/a12850.htm   ) where it looks like they are accessing using one of these in buses.  According to it 10 amps might be the standby amperage and as high as 300 amp when operating in this environment.

If it received the amperage from the battery that would be a lot of "free" hp that the motor in a turbo or roots application has to supply at the same time it is getting the benifits.

According to Engelhard this system is not designed to operate
continuously and the urban bus application will require it to operate
much more frequently than it is designed to operate. DDC needs to
provide information, demonstrating that it is reasonable to expect the
Turbodyne system will remain operational for 150,000 miles. Engelhard
commented that it had thoroughly tested the Turbodyne system and found
air leaks and malfunctioning of the controller system occurred
frequently. In its comments of December 19, 1997 JMI states that the
Turbodyne system appears to have two states: on and off. Considering
the performance cycle of a typical urban bus, this system would be
turned on every time a bus would pull away from the curb. Since the
system has a high amperage draw on the bus' electrical system long term
use could prematurely wear out the battery or starter solenoid. What
are the long term impacts on the life to the electrical system? Was a
standard bus battery/starter system used in the test cell? How high is
the amperage and could this require modifications to the bus'
electrical system? Could rewiring be required and are there concerns of
shorts, or fire hazards?
    In response to these comments, DDC states that The TurboPac unit is
intended to compensate for the inherent lag in the engine turbocharger
during rapid accelerations from low speed/light load conditions. During
these periods the TurboPac operates at high speed with a current draw
of approximately 300 amps. At all other times when the engine is
operational, the TurboPac runs at low speed in the ``standby''
condition with a current draw of about 10 amps. Accelerations
sufficient to trigger high speed TurboPac operation are expected to
occur quite frequently in urban bus applications. However, the duration
of the high speed TurboPac operation is very short. The system limits
high speed operation to a maximum of eight

I have no idea how accurate the statements in the quote are.

I used ( turbodyne turbopac electrical use ) in the google search to get that info.

c ya, Sum

[Rex Schimmer]

Couldn't all of this really be circumvented by going to a compound engine, i.e. put on a BIG turbo and add an external shaft that would go to a step down gear box, maybe from one of the centrifugal blower manufactures, get the shaft speed down to something resonable and then gear it to the engine output shaft. The turbo turbine is pretty efficient and if you started with a big one you could have lots of boost plus plenty of "extra" power that you could take off of the turbine and I think that compound motor combinations are legal.

Rex

[Glen]

Gale Banks had a 2nd electric driven turbo on the Dodge Ram pick up used to push off Al Teague and as so as they hit the switch it spun the push truck tires slowing it down. Pretty neat set up though.