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Author Topic: APS/Ω Gas turbine bike build  (Read 419123 times)
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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #735 on: November 15, 2014, 10:35:28 AM »

It is nice to get some local publicity.

Do you have a filter or screen on the oil supply so lube contaminants do not plug the oil nozzle?

Yup, I will tap oil from the mail oil system so I have an automotive oil filter that takes care of any dirt in the oil.
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Crackerman
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« Reply #736 on: November 15, 2014, 11:02:54 PM »

On the gearbox, what viscosity are you using? On every rear differential manufactured over the last 100+ years, none of em use pressure to lube the gear or bearings. There is enough slinging around the case to splash oil everything needed.
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gidge348
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« Reply #737 on: November 16, 2014, 01:50:45 AM »

On every rear differential manufactured over the last 100+ years, none of em use pressure to lube the gear or bearings. There is enough slinging around the case to splash oil everything needed.
You are right, but differentials rarely spin at 50,000 rpm+   grin grin
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Crackerman
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« Reply #738 on: November 16, 2014, 12:01:11 PM »

On every rear differential manufactured over the last 100+ years, none of em use pressure to lube the gear or bearings. There is enough slinging around the case to splash oil everything needed.
You are right, but differentials rarely spin at 50,000 rpm+   grin grin

Well... Thats a new one! I can see the importance now.
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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #739 on: November 16, 2014, 03:42:38 PM »

On the gearbox, what viscosity are you using? On every rear differential manufactured over the last 100+ years, none of em use pressure to lube the gear or bearings. There is enough slinging around the case to splash oil everything needed.

I will tap oil from the main oil pump so I will use regular semi-synthetic 10/40 oil to lube the gears and bearings.

And yes, the revs and the heat demands a high pressure oil jet to get the lube where it is needed and to carry away heat from the metal.
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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #740 on: November 17, 2014, 05:43:22 PM »

Tonight I made the second and last oil jet, this one was for lubricating the gear mesh. Here I am about to drill the hole in the gearbox casing.



The oil jet nozzle is made in brass with a 1mm hole in the end, should flow enough oil to keep the gears happy.



Here the nozzle is in place, the jet is pointing at the pinion gear so the oil will reach the gear before the teeth mesh together.



With that taken care of I connected the two oil jets with hydraulic tubes in top of the gearbox and ended it with an AN4 male coupling, a steel braided hose will connect them with the main oil line just downstream the oil filter.



Next up is to make the gearbox drain line back to the oil tank, I think I have figured out a good way to do it.

Cheers!
/Anders
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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #741 on: November 19, 2014, 05:10:26 PM »

I repaired the cracked weld in the oil tank an hour ago, it isn´t very fun to tig weld on an uncleaned oil tank but it turned out pretty ok.



With the tank welded and back in the frame I could fit the gearbox and start figuring out how to solve the drain.

You can see one of the two hose connections at the bottom of the gearbox that I will use, a short length of steel tube will be soldered to them inside the gearbox to get enough oil sump height for oil to reach the output bearings.



Here are the two matching hose fittings made in aluminum that I will weld to the top of the oil tank, they will act both as a vent line for the oil tank (will fit a large breather to the gearbox top) and of course as the drain for the oil injected into the bearings and gear mesh.



I will need to buy some 17mm ID hose before I can find the right position of the tank fittings and weld them in place.



As always I put a new layer of coating on the tail fairing plug, not much left to do on it now before it is time to make the mold for the real fairing.

Cheers!
/Anders
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tauruck
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« Reply #742 on: November 19, 2014, 05:14:53 PM »

Anders, you are one hard working guy.

You inspire me. Nothing is too much of an obstacle for you.
Awesome project and you're educating me. cheers

Mike.
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Old Scrambler
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« Reply #743 on: November 19, 2014, 08:26:23 PM »

Your GREAT WORK continues...................I assume that brass 3-way junction is attached to the tranny case................
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
Chasis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #744 on: November 20, 2014, 04:49:35 AM »

Anders, you are one hard working guy.

You inspire me. Nothing is too much of an obstacle for you.
Awesome project and you're educating me. cheers

Mike.

Thank you very much Mike, I enjoy the build so much that it doesen´t bother me at all that I have to do these modifications to the gearbox.

Another factor is that I am only half your age, and we youngsters tend to keep the pace up. smiley

Your GREAT WORK continues...................I assume that brass 3-way junction is attached to the tranny case................

Thanks!

Do you mean that it is secured in the case to avoid vibrations? If so, no but the hydraulic lines are so sturdy that it won´t be a problem. Especially since the engine itself is vibration free, was it a Triumph engine I would bolt down and lockwire everything twice. smiley
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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #745 on: November 25, 2014, 12:58:33 PM »

Last night was spent in the workshop, first of all I drilled the hole in the oil tank for the oil return from the gearbox. To avoid getting scrap in the oil tank I pressurized it with shop air.



Here the hose fitting is welded in place on top of the tank.



My first idea was to fit two drain lines but I had to skip the second one since it would have been placed exactly below the output gear in the gearbox, the reason why that wouldn´t work is because I need to use a snorkel tube to get the wet sump level high enough for the pooled up oil to reach the output bearings.



To avoid blowing up the oil tank again I fitted a larger diameter vent in the tank lid, a steel braided hose will lead the smoke away from the jet exhaust so it won´t catch fire.



That was the easy part, now for the boring bit. I had to open up the freepower NGV throat area a bit since after finding out that I had made it a bit too narrow, now the throat area is close to 75cm2 which should be equal to a jet nozzle of slightly more than 90mm considering the extra flow restrictions through the NGV and power turbine.



Cheers!
/Anders
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #746 on: November 27, 2014, 11:37:17 AM »

Anders,
As always great work and impressive parts. I do need to make a comment on your gear box lube system. I appears that your oiling system is designed to directly inject a stream of oil into the pinion/ring gear mesh area as the gears go into mesh. This can cause excessive heat as the oil is trapped by the gears into the root area of the mesh and this can cause the oil to be at a very high pressure for a short period of time which takes horsepower and generates heat. My experience is with high horsepower milling spindles and we found out that if you wanted to lube a set of gears with a stream of oil you needed to inject the oil on the gears as they come out of mesh. Enough oil was retained by the gears to provide lubrication to the gear mesh area and the extra oil that was thrown of by the rotating gear would provide cooling. In really high speed spindles, 10,000 rpm +, we would fill the gear case with a mist of oil which lubed the gears.

Rex

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Rex

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Mobacken Racing
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« Reply #747 on: November 27, 2014, 03:56:07 PM »

Anders,
As always great work and impressive parts. I do need to make a comment on your gear box lube system. I appears that your oiling system is designed to directly inject a stream of oil into the pinion/ring gear mesh area as the gears go into mesh. This can cause excessive heat as the oil is trapped by the gears into the root area of the mesh and this can cause the oil to be at a very high pressure for a short period of time which takes horsepower and generates heat. My experience is with high horsepower milling spindles and we found out that if you wanted to lube a set of gears with a stream of oil you needed to inject the oil on the gears as they come out of mesh. Enough oil was retained by the gears to provide lubrication to the gear mesh area and the extra oil that was thrown of by the rotating gear would provide cooling. In really high speed spindles, 10,000 rpm +, we would fill the gear case with a mist of oil which lubed the gears.

Rex



Hi Rex,

I totally agree with you and I´ve been discussing this with my australian friend who has helped me a lot with the calculations during the engine project, he is well aware but feel like it is a fair trade off since in his opinion oil directed on the gears anywhere but where they mesh would sling off and not do any good at all.

The primary gear will rev over 30.000rpm at full throttle so I tend to agree with him, but I am very interested in your opinion about this so please correct me if I am on the wrong track.

To get oil to the gearbox I found that a connection fitted on the regulator block would be best, it is upstream the oil filter but Ernie has sponsored me with some really nice steel mesh AN filters that I will fit to the oil hose.



Drilled and threaded for an AN4 fitting!



Here the regulator is back in place with the added fitting, it turned out very neat IMHO.



To avoid damage to the gears and bearings I modified the oil drain plug to hold a neodymium magnet that will capture any metal flake floating around in there.



Cheers!
/Anders
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #748 on: November 27, 2014, 04:19:07 PM »

Anders,
At 30K rpm I think you will have a few lubrication "challenges". One thing I would highly recommend is that you have a temp pick up on the gear case to monitor oil temp, with that pinion screwing oil into the gear mesh at 30K I might be concerned. At that speed it may all be a mot point as the gear may just turn all of the oil into a mist and you will get the mist type of lubrication that is common in high speed transmissions. Keep us informed.

Rex
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Rex

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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #749 on: November 27, 2014, 06:41:39 PM »

How are you reducing the rpm from 30 grand to the slower speed needed to turn the engine sprocket?  It seems the ring and pinion gear alone is not enough reduction.
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