Are these legal bikes

[Nortonist 592]

On the thread about the car that ran in the wrong class a couple of posts said that it is'nt the tech inspectors job to determine the classification or legality of a bike.  It is up to the competitor to make sure his bike or car is legal.  The inspectors are there to ensure the compliance with the safety rules.  So if these bikes are illegal and gaining points for the club championship who's job is it to determine the legality or otherwise of these bikes.  And if these bikes are illegal as supposed will the points be deducted from the Gear Grinders?

[JackD]

Let me tell you , I have caught a fair share of bikes with classing problems and most of them at tech.
 It was always my belief the inspection was also to assist the entrant to be legal now so that it presented
 far fewer problems later in the event.
I always figured the organizers owed it to the entrant to do a complete job for them and let them know
 that others would be watching them.
 Simple rules and other simple communications generated very few mistakes and almost no cheating.
I was the one that suggested the class be clearly marked on the number plate so it would be an easy
 visual reference for any and everybody to see.
Fair and equal treatment saves a lot of trying to be tough.
 Preparation of the entry to be legal is every bit as important as any performance thing you do.
The Duke had a saying about tough, can you remember it ?

[landracing]

I guess the better question will be, can an entrant be deemed illegal without a protest? Even with photography to show that it is illegal can the organization determine that on their own and take action? Or DO YOU HAVE to have a protest form?

I believe the Noonan deal came about from a picture also.. Im not sure if there was an official protest and money changed hands, or if the organization just took action?

And were the bikes presented to the tech area that way or were they changed after being thru tech.

The official tech card shows that it is sapposed to be checked. And if there is a check in that slot well, I dont know.... DO they use the checklist like at Bonneville at El Mirage?

Jon

[JackD]

There is a joke around Bonneville about an entrant
 that thrashed for the whole time as a gasser and on the last pass they put a big load in it to go real
 fast and just went home with a first place trophy for the class that would never stand up to an inspection.
If you are caught in the wrong, that is stupid,your innocent look is even worse.

[Stan Back]

That would be  real cumbersome at El Mirage where almost every entry is counted for club points, which I surmise is not the case at ECTA.

[JackD]

The method that Scott mentions might work for them bur won't work for El Mirage.
 Does anybody want to verify the total legality of 100+ entries on a Sunday after noon?
Do a proper inspection up front with the entrant following along at every detail.
It is kinda of a "Trust but verify" type of deal. If the entrant is confident in the inspection soon you will find them anxious to show you everything that is a product of all their hard work.
The same treatment for everybody will keep the cheaters at bay and both sides know the rules are simple and clear enough that everybody is watching with the same information.
As for local policy and Club representation, the meets at El Mirage have a system that works for them at El Mirage and is now better that something else that might work at Maxton.
Bonneville tries to run under the same rules but is touted as a "World Class" event and the entrants deserve a little different treatment.
Look how lucky everybody was with the handling of the GT deal. Sure he got busted for problems at El Mirage, the good part you are wondering about is the mistakes are far less likely to happen again.
As much as some don't like it, this communication network worked very well to identify the problem and educate a lot of people on how to avoid it in the future.
The "Screw him he lives in Colorado", plan won't fly any longer or farther that your broken foot.

Hey wait!! Isn't he a ROD RIDER anyway ? SCREW HIM !!!  

[JackD]

Now that we seemingly established a value, we have to sell it and make some real money.

[Dynoroom]

Now that we seemingly established a value, we have to sell it and make some real money.

Shoot, I was hoping it would stay an amateur site...

[Bob Drury]

Jack, I have seen both sides of the inspection/class verification, as I thought I had legally changed from the classic class to the class I used to run in.  I mentioned this to the inspectors, who did not disagree with me.  Only after I mentioned the class change on this site, did Dan make me aware of my misinterpretation (damn faulty glasses!) of the rules.  I have to agree, however, the rule book does clearly state (new glasses on) that it is up to the entrant to determine what class he runs in.  We do not need anything more to slow down the inspection process, unless you put a beer stand in the line.....................

[JackD]

LSR is one of the most difficult things to inspect, not only for safety but class legal also.
Many series have "COOKIE CUTTER" entries and the big deal is where you get to set up your sales operation and proper sticker placement.
At Bonneville you are likely to have more classes entered than days in the year.
 The log book can go a long ways towards some solution but knowing the rules for your class better than anybody is the first thing you ought to do.
 If you get it wrong, it doesn't matter how fast you are.
 As you might expect, that goes for the people that are expected to bless your entry also.
 A mistake should be treated as part of a lesson and a lie should teach also.
 The more it is exposed, the less chance there is for either to repeat.
This forum has been much more responsible than many and is getting better.


Geez, i did that whole thing without a spello.
I gotta fix it.

[Bob Drury]

There should be a space between Jack and D.  Just trying to be helpfull, as always.............................

[JackD]

There should be a space between Jack and D.  Just trying to be helpfull, as always.............................

If I did a space in the middle, can you imagine what and who I would have to deal with ?
I would be forced to display my dark side.

[Bob Drury]

Please, no Mooning on this site, as per Amo's rules and regulation Order #65-B.

[landracing]

Lets keep "on Topic"

Jon

[panic]

None of my business since I won't enter, but in my opinion it would be extremely helpful to expand the duties of the techie from merely pass/fail ("this won't work, fix it") to include warnings ("I don't think this is legal for the class marked - I can't discuss it with you, but you might want to analyze it yourself before running").
Is there such as thing in civil law is a protest and disqualification without an objectant?
Yes, it's called "sua sponte", where the Court makes it own objection.
ALL other objections require a protest from the injured party - but they also require proof from the petitioner (racer) that the potential objectants have been given formal notice of his intent, and that their silence is failure to object and can be construed as consent. Since no such obligation is imposed on racers now (to furnish all other class entrants, including the current record holder) with their entire construction details with pictures how else can this be done?
The concept of an illegal act being accepted (run not legal for class making a record) because the opponents don't know about it, and the sanctioning body won't do it themselves is, again, my opinion, unfair and unsportsmanlike.
There is a basic principle of law that we inherited from the Roman republic: "one may not profit from one's own bad conduct".