Author Topic: Data loggers-where to start  (Read 10221 times)

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Offline azgearhed

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Data loggers-where to start
« on: March 06, 2013, 03:02:34 PM »
We will be using some kind of data acquisition system in the near future (time to get serious I guess) What is considered to be the best system and what do I need to know before I buy?
BC Racing 1979 Z-28
AA/CBGC Record 251.802 Speed Week 2012
AA/CBGALT Record 255.382 Speed Week 2013
AA/CBGC Record 226.104 El Mirage Sept 2015
AA/CBFALT Record 227.954 El Mirage June 2016
AA/CBGC Record 267.878 Speed Week 2018
AA/CBGALT Record 236.458 El Mirage Nov 2016
It's a lot of work to have fun...

Offline bbarn

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Re: Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 07:31:25 PM »
How much do you plan/want to spend?
How many data points do you want to capture?
Just data logging or are you looking for an entire ECU with data logging capabilities?
Do you have an ECU already and you are looking to connect it to a logger?
I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 08:29:34 PM »
Don't buy anything until you know what you want to know.  Logging 8 egts, 2-10 AFRs, 3-4 temps, 2-3 pressures....  or just a couple of AFRs temps and pressures....
see post above.
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline POPS

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 11:13:55 PM »
I would start with the Racepak V500 stuff for the following reasons:
1) The V500 series uses CANbus sensors.  The beauty of this system is that most of the sensors are all attached serially to the same cable.  So you can add additional sensors almost at will. Just plug them in and go.
2) There is usually someone from Racepak at Speedweek.
3) Lots of your fellow racers use Racepak. Which may help if you need to replace a bad transducer or need help with downloading etc.
4) The V500 is a very mature product that is installed on 1000's of drag cars.
5) The V500 uses plug in sim card so memory is vast.
6) The application software is a free download and it is very user friendly.
I know your thinking that I must own Racepak, but its actually owned by MSD.

Offline maguromic

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 11:36:05 PM »
Some things to consider and not in any particular order:

1. Logging memory
2. Maximum logging rate and can it be user defined per channel
3. Logging modes (sequential, cyclic or both)
4. Amount of analog and digital inputs
5. Does it support your ECU or future ECU
6. Download speed
7. Can it be expanded as your needs expand without starting over
8. Technical support
9. Price

Most of your good data logger companies have support on the salt either from the factory or by authorized reps.  Also there are lots of good used Pro units on the market for literately for a few pennies on the dollar.  Tony

Tony

“If you haven’t seen the future, you are not going fast enough”

Offline johnneilson

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 12:30:32 AM »
All good points listed above.
In addition to them one other consideration is very important, the analysis software.
Granted, for land speed, 3d chassis articulation is probably not that important, but, having the ability to write math channels can be very useful.
In todays technology, I would assume that most if not all SW has pretty much the same capability.

Try downloading the different SW and sample data and try doing some analysis, like any tool, if it works for you then it is right.

John
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.

Offline azgearhed

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 10:29:38 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I also have questions about laptop compatability ( 32 bit, 64 bit, etc). I have to run a bunch of errands this morning' but I will get back to this discussion tonight.
BC Racing 1979 Z-28
AA/CBGC Record 251.802 Speed Week 2012
AA/CBGALT Record 255.382 Speed Week 2013
AA/CBGC Record 226.104 El Mirage Sept 2015
AA/CBFALT Record 227.954 El Mirage June 2016
AA/CBGC Record 267.878 Speed Week 2018
AA/CBGALT Record 236.458 El Mirage Nov 2016
It's a lot of work to have fun...

Offline Dean Los Angeles

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 11:00:13 AM »
Looking at the Racepak price list
The Racepak V300SD is $2,231
Thermocouple module with probe $189
Intercooler inlet temperature $169
Air/fuel ratio $359
Pressure/vacuum manifold $249

You get the idea. You have to pick price first then see what fits your budget. Spending multiple thousands of dollars is easy.
Those are list prices. Check Ebay and racingjunk.com. Look for used systems.
Having said that, you can't have too much information.
Well, maybe. You also have to look at your overall program. Having information an doing something with that information is another topic. If you don't have a big dyno budget you have to take a good look at what the information will gain you.

Rpm. Seeing where you you are shifting and how long you spend in any one gear is informative. Wheel slip will show.
Speed you can get from a logging GPS if you already have one. Or add a wheel sensor.
AFR, EGT, and oxygen sensors will help with the tuning.
Oil pressure, fuel pressure, nitrous pressure, boost pressure, manifold pressure/vacuum, pan vacuum . . .
accelerometer or G-meter. Lets you know how hard you are pulling through the gears and where the soft spots are.
Cylinder head temperature, coolant temperature, manifold inlet temperature, oil temperature . . .

Most ECU's can data log. Just be careful that the sampling rates are equal to what a true data logger will do. Missing critical information ain't fun.
Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.

Offline Dynoroom

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 01:56:52 PM »
The information you've been given so far is very good. We use a Quick Data II by Edelbrock. Like most of the systems you can buy it in different versions. The basic kit has 1 MB memory while the advanced kit has 4 MB. The advanced kit comes with 8 EGT probes, 2) 0-100 psi sensors, wheel speed & shaft sensors, harness, and several other sensors and temp probes.
You can also order linier or string potentiometers and O2 kits etc.
Go to the web site and check the stuff out. As a selfless plug I'm a dealer for Edelbrock so if you have any questions you can e-mail or call.
Also look into some of the better EFI systems as many have data acquisition as part of the system, for those not running in classic.
Another thing to keep in mind, it's also good to have "service reps" for the type of system you're using at the tracks you run at in case you need help or parts. Several suppilers have people at the salt and El Mirage.
Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...

Offline NathanStewart

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 05:51:19 PM »
By far the most over featured yet affordable logger on the market: AEM AQ-1
The free data analysis software that comes with it: AEMdata

PM me if you have questions.
El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 06:15:16 PM »
We got our data analysis at about the 3-1/2-mile, with input, once in a while by Kepner.  Could be why we haven't seen Impound in years.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline Stainless1

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 08:48:01 PM »
We got our data analysis at about the 3-1/2-mile, with input, once in a while by Kepner.  Could be why we haven't seen Impound in years.

Come on Stan, you see impound every day... seeing it is easy, taking a car through the gate a couple of times is the tough part.

I have an AEM logger, with a 4 channel EGT and 4 channel AFR, good value for the money, easy to pull and view the data with a laptop
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline dw230

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 10:35:21 AM »
AEM is a good choice, John Romero is always at lakes and salt for consult. AEM is the official ECU of the White Goose Bar Team.

DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth

Offline Stan Back

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 12:06:20 PM »
I'd heard the Team preferred their Breath Analyzer.
Past (Only) Member of the San Berdoo Roadsters -- "California's Most-Exclusive Roadster Club" -- 19 Years of Bonneville and/or El Mirage Street Roadster Records

Offline dw230

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Re: Data loggers-where to start
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 12:14:49 PM »
 Too many products to list. AEM is a full service company providing products and services to many facets of humankind.

DW
White Goose Bar - Where LSR is a lifestyle
Alcohol - because no good story starts with a salad.

Don't be Karen, be Beth